do you neeeeed buttons!?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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vip32
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do you neeeeed buttons!?

Post by vip32 » Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:33 pm

http://monome.org/index.php?m=01
has anybody heard about this thingy? expensive, but nice :)

inis
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Post by inis » Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:05 pm

do you need buttons? yes. do you need $500+ buttons? absolutely not. lol.

this product is a fucking joke in my opinion. there are many others options out on the market for way, way, way cheaper.

and for god sakes, if all you want is a bunch of buttons, you could build it yourself for really cheap.

rozling
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Post by rozling » Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:27 pm

I wouldn't call it a joke (or even a fucking joke), but definitely not worth the asking price. They're doing a different take on it by making the lighting independent of button presses & responsive to midi/osc - I really think visual feedback is everything on a hardware controller & they're going about it the right way.

Edit - didn't realise that price was for the 8x8 model. That's a fucking joke!

illperson
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Post by illperson » Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:11 pm

The photos dont really show it off to best effect. i think the movies have gone which is a shame.

Daedelus uses a prototype for his live shows. very interesting.

The high price is down to the small production run.
TS - WHI

elemental
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Post by elemental » Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:14 pm

Looks pretty cool.

But the Faderfox LX-2 will be better!

Machinate
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Post by Machinate » Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:50 pm

Better? How? Try wringing 256 triggers out of a faderfox, bro.. ain't gonna happen ;)

Personally I'm really excited about this. Ain't no product approaching this, and even doing this diy-style will be a downright pain, and out of reach for most electronic music people. Easiest way to get it? 4 faderfoxes? In one unit? that would be something like http://www.largonet.net/midiboutique/pr ... e32064.htm for some people, or ucapps.de for the rest of us.

Personally I just got 320 buttons that will go into 2 or 3 boutique controllers. The overall cost of these controllers will be kept way down, since the production cost of these units is exceptionally high anyway - it takes tons and tons of hours to solder this kind of shit, and honestly, if the monome was out 3 years ago I would never have gotten my Schaltwerk, and maybe I would not have gotten into controller design the way I have now.

Personally I can't wait to get into real-time sequencing with step programming from midi controllers... who's with me? Anone who's ever operated an analogue-style step sequencer will know what I'm talking about.

I believe the site used to be "nnnnnnnnn something dot org" or whatever, and even the first prototype rocked. The visual aspect of it is mindbogglingly cool as well.

[EDIT: DAMN! I thought the 16x16 one would be 500$.... it's the 8x8 one! I'm sorry, but that's way too much, even for my taste! So the big one will be something like 1750$ I guess.]
[edit-edit: Pretty damn good video though: http://music.calarts.edu/~tehn/(tehn)mlr.mov - you'll need to fix the parenthesis.
mbp 2.66, osx 10.6.8, 8GB ram.

Marquis
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Post by Marquis » Thu Jan 12, 2006 12:06 am

Price is too high, but the idea is good.

I'd sure love to have a light inside my trigger finger pads...!

Imagine:
* light on/off for clip trigger status or effect bypass on/off.
* Kaoss pad style colour change dependant on aftertouch/velocity (might be a big ask)

That with an led on the rotary pots, and 8x8 or even 16x16 pad grid, plus a horizontal cross-fader as well as the rotaries and sliders - that's my idea of a supercontroller.

And if there was a mouse trackpad and buttons on it as well!!! Think - you'd pretty much eliminate the need to ever touch the computer! And you wouldn't have to look at the screen anywhere near as much - so much better for crowd interaction.

*dreams*

Machinate
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Post by Machinate » Thu Jan 12, 2006 12:10 am

Marquis wrote:[...]
That with an led on the rotary pots, and 8x8 or even 16x16 pad grid, plus a horizontal cross-fader as well as the rotaries and sliders - that's my idea of a supercontroller.
[...]
*dreams*
hehe, oh man... A 16x16 triggerfinger? Like 4 TFs up, 4 TFs across? that would be a sick sick sick percussion instrument. And it would cost you exactly 16 times the going rate of a TF plus a big-ass usb hub...It'll probably cost about the same as their controller, actually.
mbp 2.66, osx 10.6.8, 8GB ram.

inis
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Post by inis » Thu Jan 12, 2006 4:51 pm

Machinate wrote:
Marquis wrote:[...]
That with an led on the rotary pots, and 8x8 or even 16x16 pad grid, plus a horizontal cross-fader as well as the rotaries and sliders - that's my idea of a supercontroller.
[...]
*dreams*
hehe, oh man... A 16x16 triggerfinger? Like 4 TFs up, 4 TFs across? that would be a sick sick sick percussion instrument. And it would cost you exactly 16 times the going rate of a TF plus a big-ass usb hub...It'll probably cost about the same as their controller, actually.
exactly. id rather have all the trigger fingers for the price. lol. the point being you dont need it.

if you guys have ever seen the dj from Linkin Park, his set up is kinda like that. 4+mpc16's all stack around whatever the main focus point is (turntables, etc).

ryansupak
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Post by ryansupak » Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:13 pm

I had some long discussions with Brian while we was designing and spec'ing the thing, mostly about things like injection molding and wholesale electronics.

He has tried to cut costs wherever he can, though he tries to go with USA-made and sustainable parts when possible.

Consider, though, that even the m-audio trigger thingy costs a few hundred bucks, has 16 silicon pads, and is made of plastic -- and it has an enormous production run and is probably made in China.

This has 64 pads, has a metal and lucite case, a miniscule production run, and the pads light up. So, IMO it's not a bad value considering what you're getting.

$0.02,
rs

inis
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Post by inis » Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:35 pm

My first feelin as far as location of components is a really dont care. American, Chinese, Bulgarian. I dont necessarily think the US makes more amazing or better products than asian or european countries.

Second, i no every is always in love with sexy metal casings and things of that nature. god knows i am, i own two apples, lol. but even though the trigger finger is just plastic and rubber, i feel likee i do with my other m-audio products...that i can beat the shit out of it. just cause its plastic doesnt make it solid. I can throw those things around, and i do, going between gig after gig. so id honestly rather take the chance of breaking one and replacing it once or twice than buying a metal incased unit. I will probably break that one anyone.

I think it is an awsome product. i would love to buy one. but the price is just a little much. no personaly i dont care about lighted buttons that much, but i know plenty of other people do, so that might be a feature to hold onto. but i would encourage you to look into other options are far as making it less expensive. I couldnt consider it unless it was less than $300.

nolus
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Post by nolus » Thu Jan 12, 2006 11:22 pm

If the buttons were velocity sensitive and it had tri-colour leds with adjustable brightness I would definitely buy one. 12 * 12 would be a usefull size.

I have often daydreamed about such a device and how it might be constructed. One day I might get around to building one.
"That very perceptive of you Mr Stapleton, and rather unexpected... in a G Major"

illperson
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Post by illperson » Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:26 pm

latest pics etc...
greetings friends,

several full-sized images of progress and production: http://flickr.com/photos/monome

stay informed with recent updates: http://monome.org/news.rss

first public showing begins january 22 as a part of an installation at pomona college museum of art: http://www.pomona.edu/museum/exhibitions/

it will control a large robotic egg-tapping drum machine: http://nnnnnnnn.org/ac
come say hello this sunday if you're geaographically capable.

assembly has begun, though we're waiting on a few parts to get back from manufacturers. we're hoping to set a release date in the next week or two (we're hoping for early march.)

we appreciate everybody spreading the word. don't let the short stock deter you. you'll get one. a second run would be fast, and we're hopeful and excited about getting the 100h (16x16) started.

best.
TS - WHI

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