I've bought a lemur

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
louZ
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Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 6:35 pm
Location: Holland

Post by louZ » Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:32 am

henry ford wrote:the great thing about the lemur is that after you cum all over it, you can clean it easily thanks to its wipe-clean surface.
:lol:

Hedroom
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Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:23 pm

Post by Hedroom » Wed Feb 01, 2006 9:36 am

So...

I did a couple of tests last night and ryansupak is right in saying that the latency is pretty high with MIDI. Fine for effect and synth parameter tweaks etc but really not suitable for drumming on etc.

However, the unit was conceived as an OSC interface and I understand that Jazzmutant only reluctantly added "old-fashioned" MIDI to appease lots of requests. I did in fact buy the lemur to use with Max/MSP (perhaps rewired into Live) so I thought I'd better check out a max patch.

I was relieved to discover that latency is in fact very low (comparable to MIDI keyboards). I tried the fm synth example max patch and lemur interface file from the Jazzmutant file. It was more than possible than to play the synth along with some music playing off a cd.

In short... I'm very happy with the response of the unit when using OSC though anyone buying to control an app such as Ableton via MIDI may well be disappointed if they don't have another controller for timing-critical control.

OSC support in Live 6 please Ableton :wink:

ryansupak
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Post by ryansupak » Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:10 pm

thx splashmas.

maybe ill give it one more go before i return it to cycling74...

rs

Hedroom
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Post by Hedroom » Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:34 pm

Ryansurpak,

A couple more things to check:

Are you on Mac or PC?

If you are on Mac there's a recognised issue where screen redrawing on jazzeditor uses a fair amount of cpu and can add latency. Minimizing Jazzeditor supposedly remedies this. This may also help with PC.

If you are using PC you may be using an app like MIDIyoke to route the MIDI to Ableton. Something worth trying which I intend to try tonight is to send MIDI from Jazzeditor out of a physical MIDI port and connect this port to an input used by Ableton with a cable. If this works better then MIDIyoke itself could be the issue.

ryansupak
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Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 7:23 pm

Post by ryansupak » Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:28 pm

I'm a Mac user -- so maybe the JazzEditor is just giving the processor a beating. I'll try taking it out of the picture tonight completely.

Thanks again.

rs

Hedroom
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Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:23 pm

Post by Hedroom » Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:40 pm

Minimise it though, don't close it. It needs to be open to translate OSC into MIDI.

Here's a test I'm going to do tonight. It would be interesting and useful if you could do the same.

Setup your soundcard at 44kHz with a buffer size of 3msec (or the smallest you can manage-just keep it consistent).

Record yourself triggering a sound from a pad on the lemur. Record this using a microphone such that you can hear the tap of your finger on the lemur screen and the resulting sound from your speaker. The mic needs to be equidistant from the lemur and speaker. Do this for MIDI and OSC and count the number of msec latency between your finger tap and resulting sound in each case.

Let us know the results and we can see how performance is with each.

*idea taken from the lemur mailing list

micah frank
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Post by micah frank » Tue Feb 07, 2006 7:20 am

Have you updated to the latest OS version from the JAzzmutant site?

I also have a Lemur and since the update many things are running much smoother. And many of the UI elements are much more developed. I really like it!

:D

HD1
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Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:38 pm

Post by HD1 » Tue Feb 07, 2006 7:33 am

ryansupak wrote:tried it. maybe a smidge faster -- but the responsiveness of the unit in general is still not good compared to even a cheap MIDI keyboard...I think it's the lack of tactile response.

rs
you mean you tried the lemur with some osc task ? or you tried minimizing the editor to enhance midi ?

Hedroom
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Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:23 pm

Post by Hedroom » Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:42 am

After a bit longer with it i can confirm that latency-wise it's not the fastest under the sun (am running 1.3). However, I got an email from Jazzmutant claiming that they expected 1.4 to halve the latency bringing it down to about 17msec.

However, I have my keyboard for timing critical event and the lemur gives me loads of power at my fingertips in terms of immediately tweakable parameters.

I have to say that the new objects in 1.3 are very nice too :D It looks like it's going to develop fairly rapidly too.

How are you using it Micah Frank?

HD1
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Post by HD1 » Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:28 pm

sorry for being dunce, spashmas, but can you clarify what you are experiencing lag with....osc or midi ?

some day I'd like one for osc tasks, but not if its as laggy as you say

Hedroom
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Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:23 pm

Post by Hedroom » Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:49 pm

Lag for both though it is much less for OSC. The figure I quoted was for OSC.

Whether it will be too laggy for you depends on what you want to do with it.

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