After how much time you have been satisfied?

elemental · Post by **elemental** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:21 pm

I've been doing production for over 10 years .. started when I was about 15, now 27. Been doing it seriously (i.e. working toward label releases) for the last 4.

I feel like I've only really got to where I wanna be production wise in the last year or 2.

Understanding sound is an infinite journey. It takes a long time to really understand all the different aspects of production - music, harmonics, rhythm, frequencies, transients ...........

markaugust · Post by **markaugust** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:31 pm

ILTK wrote:Use the Live scale and pitch plugins, on this page:
http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic. ... automation

There is a download with tons of scales for the scale plugin, download a bunch of MIDI files with chord progressisons (Do a search for midi file Cadences on google) run your MIDI file chord progessions thru them, put the pitch plugin in front of the scale plugin, select a good sounding scale and voila, thousands of chord progressions ready to use by just fiddling with the pitch knob

missed that one!
thanx!!!

minimal · Post by **minimal** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:37 pm

11 years of tears, little social life (always closed in studio) but in the last year I became confident about my material, got deep in synth programming and thanks god (and me of course) I still have good ears, my mixes sound good overall.... going to start sending demos to lables.

deckme(N)tal · Post by **deckme(N)tal** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:09 pm

thanks!
Can you please post the right link for the midi scales file download as i don't seem to find it!

ILTK · Post by **ILTK** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:16 pm

Whoups, that thread led to another where the link was posted by hoffman2k a little down, original post was here:

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic. ... highlight=

Direct link is:

http://users.telenet.be/Vayner/chord%20 ... resets.zip

A free plugin that is pure gold for comming up with nice chord progressions is chordspace: http://www.chordspace.com/ couple that up with the scale plugin, ohh mama

edit: and if you want to learn a little bit about cadences this is a good site:

http://www.andymilne.dial.pipex.com/Cadentialprog.shtml

You can use the table of progressions a little bit down with chordspace to see how they sound like and come up with your own stuff.

djadonis206 · Post by **djadonis206** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:50 pm

deckme(N)tal wrote:i don't really agree about the school stuff...
i mean it can be usefull and definetively a must if you are in to professional music production for soundtracks, advertisment etc...
But if you want to make serious hip hop beats or house etc. i don't think "you have to go to school"....
I can't see Lil Jon sitting at a desk yelling YEAAHAHHAHHAHHAHHA to the teacher....LOL

That's funny

Nah, you really don't need to go to school to learn to sample beats

Check out the Remix Hotel series in Miami this spring - always good stuff, try to go every year when I finally wake up (er, go to sleep and then finally wake up)

DJA!

Moody · Post by **Moody** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:15 pm

Just have fun and make alot of crazy noise. Everybody is different and what eventually influences a finished song will be individual for you.

dj superflat · Post by **dj superflat** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:42 pm

my perspective is different, maybe because i come out of the rock world where you really just need the right amp and the right guitar. that is, you get the right gear, rather than tweak endlessly. don't get me wrong, i've spent hours using the neve pres to get exactly what i'm looking for, spent months making a record, etc. but i think for anyone other than serious pros trying to attain perfection -- which usually means you're working too hard and fuck something up -- the way to go is to find the sound that fits, rather try to tweak sounds endlessly to get them to match. which is why i prefer having thousands of patches to work with, because one of them will be close enough it takes little work to fit. i also think there's genius in the limitations (cf. beatles). some of the best things i've recorded have been going into a studio at 8PM, recording and mixing 4 songs by 8AM, everything first takes, pretty much stick with the basic sounds, etc. it feels organic, sounds great. that's why the limitations the studio places on most musicians are useful -- you have to finish things, have to move on. the home studio gives endless time to fiddle, which most of us don't really benefit from. i recognize others will certainly disagree, but i wanted to weigh in because i think people just starting out shouldn't worry, because you don't need the years of experience (though it can help), you don't need technique (though it can help), you really can get by on taste if you have enough options (those options can also paralyze you, viscious circle).

icedsushi · Post by **icedsushi** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:04 pm

I think the key to reducing the amount of time to becoming satisfied is picking the right tools as early as possible. It took me about 3-4 years to become really comfortable with making electronic music on the computer. It sound like alot but I think there can be alot of computer technical stuff that bogs you down in the beginning. You know, key commands learning the deeper parts of the program and all that stuff. Spending all that time learning the technical stuff in the beginning definately slows you down, so being careful about your choices and really honing in on just one sequencer during the beginning stages is the best way to do it.

I started with Logic but after a few years, I realized it's not the best for the way I work. I've found that stripping the tools down as much as possible have reduced learning curves and time it takes to produce something I'm happy with. I've avoided Max/MSP, etc for the time being for this very reason. Sure, it's a great program but you have to be very disciplined and extremely quick with computer commands to be productive with those kind of programs. I laughed when I saw another person's post on this forum about taking 2 weeks to make a patch that plays "mary had a little lamb" by itself. It's funny but not funny because in the beginning stages of a complex program for peope who aren't coding-programmer geeks, it can almost be like that for real.

It's easy to be sucked down a hole of endless programming and tweaking, I realized myself going down that hole about 2 years ago and stopped it. Now I'm really comfortable with my tools, sticking with them, used to the familiarity, things are second nature, and I'm becoming satisfied with my own music. That's my advice.

DeadlyKungFu · Post by **DeadlyKungFu** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 8:42 pm

Your situation is very common.

I'm 33 and know a dozen or so people who are into production in one way or another.

I find that people are attracted to different layers of production.
Some just like to create sounds and never make loops.
Some just like to make loops but never finish songs.
Some just like to take pre-made loops and make tracks.
Some just like to master other peoples' finished tracks.
Some just like to DJ other peoples' tracks.

I started production 8 years ago and haven't really finished a track, by that I mean I haven't made something finished that I would buy (that's my personal criteria). Hell I've been playing guitar for 15 years and haven't written any songs but I still love it.

Buying gear is a never ending process, it's called GAS (gear acquisition syndrome). Learn to use what you have before you buy more and remember, people have done more with less.

When you find yourself tweaking on a detail too much, bounce it to audio and move on. I always have a problem with that. Sometimes letting others work on your tracks can get them closer to finished, it's a new perspective without preconceived notions that can hold you back.

You should always record when you're goofing off. One way to finish a track is to just play with it and record the result.

Never take yourself too seriously, always encourage others and remember it's all for fun.

D K · Post by **D K** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:16 pm

i've been writing, arranging, and performing for 25 years, doing full production
for 15 years, and i'm still unsatisfied. if i was satisfied, i'd leave music and do something else!

schools can be great if you don't have any kit, but for the cost of tuition, you could set up a decent studio. that end of it is about hands-on time...you'll get more in your own studio for sure.
on the other hand, school is about the forum and group experience, and being mentored... and is invaluable, i'm sure. i still might go one day!
the net is a kind of solution to a degree...
i've learned so much from this forum alone, i'm amazed.
one cool thing about ableton is the way it's set up...when i tinker with ideas, it's easy and efficient to make quick clips. some days i can't get into arrange mode in my head, but i'll make clips of phrases and ideas.
on other days when i'm in the mode i'll go back and just grab ideas and drop them in arrangements, and build tunes from there.
maybe it's good to not try too hard all the time...
gotta push yourself, but maybe don't think big picture all the time.
it'll come with consistent work.
cheers
doug