MSNBC: Particle Beam Weapons Almost Ready for Battle

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robtronik
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Post by robtronik » Mon Feb 27, 2006 8:46 am

D DAS wrote:The Third Riech wasn't defaeted, it just has a change of address.

Please send all letters of disapproval to:

The White House
c/o Third Riech
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20500
Right. What a crock of crap that is. I can't begin to count the ways how ignorant that statement is. By making the White House a comparison to the third riech you do a disrespect to the severity of fascism and the holocaust's effect and how terrible it actually was. I won't comment on whether I should be offended as american because I don't really think it matters, but I HATE this kind of comparison. It's mentally lazy, doesn't hold factually, and is really meant to just incite. Its basically stupid.

No disprespect to you as a person, but you'd be better off finding some suitable totalitarian government to compare your worries against.

Hey, I have an idea - try Iran on for size.

rob.

D DAS
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Post by D DAS » Mon Feb 27, 2006 9:31 am

the statement was made for 3 reasons of comparison:

1) fascism. we (the us) have turned into a fascist regime. Fascism for one, is when corporate and state interest merge. When decisions are being made for the betterment of corporations and not the betterment of the people. One example of this is the industrial war machine. Those who profit from war. You know the list. As an american you should be outraged at what your leaders are doing in the "name of freedom" Sure the holocaust was bad, but is it any better what we are doing now like bombing civilian cities and villiages. Go tell an Iraqi women who just lost her husband and three kids to a "mis guided bomb" that her loss is nothing compared to the holocaust.

2) Global Domination. Let's see, who else had this vision, umm, I think it was Adolf Hitler. And do not say that major US corporations did not have direct links with the 3rd Riech during WW2 because they did. Corporations like GE and IBM had very nice business relationships with Hitlers army while he was extermenating people. IBM made the freakin computers that issued numbers to concentration camp detainees. And wow, these same corporations are still thriving and now have nice business relationships with our current leaders. GE fits with the above statement of the industrial war machine.

3) Fear and Lies: This is what Hitler used to play out his sick agenda and this is what our beady eyed leaders are using to play out theirs.

So my statement is not stupid nor lazy but true. Our current leadership has a lot of the same views as the 3rd reich. What are you doing about it if your such a proud american. Are you just sitting back and eating what they tell you is truth as they rape everything America stood for. Our founding fathers Mr. America are turning in their graves.

http://www.bushflash.com/14.html

claudek
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Post by claudek » Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:32 pm

The land of peace and freedom..Oh I love the American mind..so loving and peaceful to think of ways to kill, destroy and conquer.
I do not understand why the US Gov't are such hypocrites. They preach about peace and democracy but then they have and use the most evil and dangerous weapons in the World. Why do you think other countries want nuclear warheads? They are scared.
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elemental
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Post by elemental » Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:34 pm

Scary shit
for real.

I just hope some sane people get into power soon ...

robtronik
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Post by robtronik » Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:46 pm

D DAS wrote:the statement was made for 3 reasons of comparison:

1) fascism. we (the us) have turned into a fascist regime. Fascism for one, is when corporate and state interest merge. When decisions are being made for the betterment of corporations and not the betterment of the people. One example of this is the industrial war machine. Those who profit from war. You know the list. As an american you should be outraged at what your leaders are doing in the "name of freedom" Sure the holocaust was bad, but is it any better what we are doing now like bombing civilian cities and villiages. Go tell an Iraqi women who just lost her husband and three kids to a "mis guided bomb" that her loss is nothing compared to the holocaust.

2) Global Domination. Let's see, who else had this vision, umm, I think it was Adolf Hitler. And do not say that major US corporations did not have direct links with the 3rd Riech during WW2 because they did. Corporations like GE and IBM had very nice business relationships with Hitlers army while he was extermenating people. IBM made the freakin computers that issued numbers to concentration camp detainees. And wow, these same corporations are still thriving and now have nice business relationships with our current leaders. GE fits with the above statement of the industrial war machine.

3) Fear and Lies: This is what Hitler used to play out his sick agenda and this is what our beady eyed leaders are using to play out theirs.

So my statement is not stupid nor lazy but true. Our current leadership has a lot of the same views as the 3rd reich. What are you doing about it if your such a proud american. Are you just sitting back and eating what they tell you is truth as they rape everything America stood for. Our founding fathers Mr. America are turning in their graves.

http://www.bushflash.com/14.html
Right. And Chicken tastes like steak, you know, because they are both meat. Why bother differentiating between the two.

Meat is meat, right?

Yeah, yeah, I know. Carrots and tomatoes are vegetables, therefore they both taste the same.

I love it when people take definitions of two things that are obviously not the same and make them fit their world view.

So, tell me, let's take a country like Iran or the former Iraq under Saddam (which are, again, closer to the third reich) and tell me how they equate to the U.S.?

And, because you seem so "informed", please enlighten us on how the tensions between individual and community rights and state interests vs. corporate (or private) interests are a true indicator of a FASCIST state? Oh, I don't know, I thought that was the TYPICAL battle that all democracies who have private markets go through.

Color me crazy, but I think you've come to your conclusion first and then made your case afterword. LOL.

I love it when people think the U.S. is a fascist state. That's the most moronic thing I can think of in light of what of TRUE FASCISM really is. Look, I'm not saying that there is nothing we should worry about with regard to our/my U.S. government. Of course, there are things we should be wary of, checking them, counter-balancing government actions with our oversight and civil rights. But don't mistake the natural tensions of ANY government system (and its tendency to want to grow, centralize, answer any and all needs of the people) as indicators for what TYPE of government system it is. In this case, it is the HOW and what mechanisms any government uses to answer the questions or needs of its people that determine what kind of government it is.

Like I said, the U.S. is not a fascist state. Not even close. Er, unless you really, really, really, want to believe it minus any facts, principles, or how the mechanism of government and protection of civil rights. And in that case, I can't help you.

I would recommend, however, going over to a place like Iran to see how the other half lives. Have fun. ;)

And to those who think that having weapons that are better than anyone else's is an indicator of some ill will or nefarious take over the world plan (which it could, of course), please remember that diplomacy requires military strength. It is a requirement.

BTW, you want bad guys? Who's been burning embassies of countries like Denmark lately? Yeah, I'd keep an eye on those lunatics who can't stand free speech before you start worrying about a particle laser gun. Chuckle.

Thanks for the debate. Its all very entertaining. :)

rob.

DeadlyKungFu
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Post by DeadlyKungFu » Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:40 pm

robtronik wrote:
D DAS wrote:The Third Riech wasn't defaeted, it just has a change of address.
Right. What a crock of crap that is. I can't begin to count the ways how ignorant that statement is. By making the White House a comparison to the third riech you do a disrespect to the severity of fascism and the holocaust's effect and how terrible it actually was...
I refer you to Godwin's Law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwins_law

"As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1. There is a tradition in many Usenet newsgroups that once such a comparison is made, the thread in which the comment was posted is over and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever debate was in progress.

It is considered poor form to raise arbitrarily such a comparison with the motive of ending the thread. There is a widely recognized codicil that any such deliberate invocation of Godwin's Law will be unsuccessful.

robtronik
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Post by robtronik » Mon Feb 27, 2006 8:01 pm

DeadlyKungFu wrote:
robtronik wrote:
D DAS wrote:The Third Riech wasn't defaeted, it just has a change of address.
Right. What a crock of crap that is. I can't begin to count the ways how ignorant that statement is. By making the White House a comparison to the third riech you do a disrespect to the severity of fascism and the holocaust's effect and how terrible it actually was...
I refer you to Godwin's Law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwins_law

"As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1. There is a tradition in many Usenet newsgroups that once such a comparison is made, the thread in which the comment was posted is over and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever debate was in progress.

It is considered poor form to raise arbitrarily such a comparison with the motive of ending the thread. There is a widely recognized codicil that any such deliberate invocation of Godwin's Law will be unsuccessful.
LOL. yeah, exactly. :)

rob.

forge
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Post by forge » Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:37 pm

Any comparison is pointless and maybe that's where everybody is going wrong - the rest of the world has moved on from WW2 - it only seems to be the allied "victors" who keep going on about it - and it's a kind of gloating.

Really what it's all like is the 21st century, New American Century of oppressive neo-con violence. That's what it is, whatever it looks like from the past.

Godwins law or not, I havent forgotten the bizarre way Bush et al were justifying the war on Iraq - on a bunch of strange accusations that a country that had been completely crippled by sanctions etc for 15 years was in some way dangerous, and it's old man of a leader with his worst well behind him who had even 15 years ago been beaten in a few days was still such a threat that hundreds of thousands of these johnny foreigners had to be slaughtered and billions had to be spent to go in and get rid of him, and now the country is pretty near civil war with averaging anything up to 50 dead every single day.

If anyone at all beyond a few gullible dickheads at the bottom of the food chain for one second buys anything about this war being about anything remotely good for people who are not Big businessmen, corporations or government leaders then there is little hope.

So in that sense the comparison to the industrial war machine etc is completely fair. What else is it? Of course it's similar. You think living under the nazis felt like a brutal dictatorship? I doubt it very much, people had a good standard of living, Germany under the nazis was a prosperous western nation and the people en masse certainly wouldnt have known about the things they had planned and probably thought they were doing a good job because they had on the surface sorted the country out after all the mess after WWI.

It was only to the rest of the world it would have looked bad, just like George Bush - in the US people still seem to get a picture he's not so bad due to media etc, but everywhere else this Iraq mess looks absolutely obscene and very much like world domination and empire building, and that GWB and Tony Blair etc should stand trial for it. One pointless murder gets you life, but apparently 100,000 + rising every day is totally acceptable


Really, somebody tell me because I dont actually know, since the mass graves that were actually Iranian soldiers from the war with Iran and the other massacres that happened way back in the 80s, - and of course the feeling of being oppressed and without the liberty to have a mcdonalds on every corner, how is having literally dozens of people every day blown to pieces and mob law ruling better than life under Saddam? People actually said under saddam they could walk down the street with their children at 1am and feel and be safe. Now they cant do that at lunch time and know alot of people, family and friends who are now dead.

What the leaders of the NWO aka USA/UK etc have done to that country is nothing short of a crime against humanity and I for one feel very ashamed to belong to the countries that have been involved and sincerely wish I could do something to stop it, but sadly I cant. And unless your income is at least 8 or 9 figures you cant either.

So I agree totally with the ethos of Godwins law, but the current state of American empire building is deeply sad and very much reminiscent in many ways of Nazi Germany prior to WW2 if you really feel the need to draw comparisons.

And I dont know why so many americans feel the need to take comments like this personally - if you arent a big businessman or GWB or voted for GWB (although few are better) then it's not your fault so dont take it as a cue to get defensive - just see things how they are and consider the poor fuckers who have had their lives ruined in Iraq for no reason at all before letting the maniac do it to more countries.

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Post by jeskola » Tue Feb 28, 2006 1:15 pm

forge wrote:Any comparison is pointless and maybe that's where everybody is going wrong - the rest of the world has moved on from WW2 - it only seems to be the allied "victors" who keep going on about it - and it's a kind of gloating.

Really what it's all like is the 21st century, New American Century of oppressive neo-con violence. That's what it is, whatever it looks like from the past.

Godwins law or not, I havent forgotten the bizarre way Bush et al were justifying the war on Iraq - on a bunch of strange accusations that a country that had been completely crippled by sanctions etc for 15 years was in some way dangerous, and it's old man of a leader with his worst well behind him who had even 15 years ago been beaten in a few days was still such a threat that hundreds of thousands of these johnny foreigners had to be slaughtered and billions had to be spent to go in and get rid of him, and now the country is pretty near civil war with averaging anything up to 50 dead every single day.

If anyone at all beyond a few gullible dickheads at the bottom of the food chain for one second buys anything about this war being about anything remotely good for people who are not Big businessmen, corporations or government leaders then there is little hope.

So in that sense the comparison to the industrial war machine etc is completely fair. What else is it? Of course it's similar. You think living under the nazis felt like a brutal dictatorship? I doubt it very much, people had a good standard of living, Germany under the nazis was a prosperous western nation and the people en masse certainly wouldnt have known about the things they had planned and probably thought they were doing a good job because they had on the surface sorted the country out after all the mess after WWI.

It was only to the rest of the world it would have looked bad, just like George Bush - in the US people still seem to get a picture he's not so bad due to media etc, but everywhere else this Iraq mess looks absolutely obscene and very much like world domination and empire building, and that GWB and Tony Blair etc should stand trial for it. One pointless murder gets you life, but apparently 100,000 + rising every day is totally acceptable


Really, somebody tell me because I dont actually know, since the mass graves that were actually Iranian soldiers from the war with Iran and the other massacres that happened way back in the 80s, - and of course the feeling of being oppressed and without the liberty to have a mcdonalds on every corner, how is having literally dozens of people every day blown to pieces and mob law ruling better than life under Saddam? People actually said under saddam they could walk down the street with their children at 1am and feel and be safe. Now they cant do that at lunch time and know alot of people, family and friends who are now dead.

What the leaders of the NWO aka USA/UK etc have done to that country is nothing short of a crime against humanity and I for one feel very ashamed to belong to the countries that have been involved and sincerely wish I could do something to stop it, but sadly I cant. And unless your income is at least 8 or 9 figures you cant either.

So I agree totally with the ethos of Godwins law, but the current state of American empire building is deeply sad and very much reminiscent in many ways of Nazi Germany prior to WW2 if you really feel the need to draw comparisons.

And I dont know why so many americans feel the need to take comments like this personally - if you arent a big businessman or GWB or voted for GWB (although few are better) then it's not your fault so dont take it as a cue to get defensive - just see things how they are and consider the poor fuckers who have had their lives ruined in Iraq for no reason at all before letting the maniac do it to more countries.
there was a rather good programme on TV in the UK last night called Stealing our freedom - with the tag line on the advert - "are we sleep walking into a dictatorship."

Mainly rasing the point that our increased security measures are in fact a cover for real world big brother, the same could be said for amearica and beyond. And in this day and age when the US and UK have such a grip on the rest of the world who knows so wheres it all going :cry:

forgie
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Post by forgie » Tue Feb 28, 2006 1:42 pm

People, people! We can't go around telling it like it is.... someone is bound to get offended at the fact that we exercising not only free speech, but free minds. That could get you all arrested under the Patriot act. Or something. :P

claudek
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Post by claudek » Tue Feb 28, 2006 2:38 pm

What is American freedom mean?

One cannot say curse words on radio or tv, not to show breasts in ads, not to show nipples on bra ads, no smoking in public areas, not to wear certain clothing that offends political parties or arrested.. ...so many stupid freedom laws..

Who else knows about the freedom of America and what it dictates the World must go by in future..

Iraq...
Iran...
......
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robtronik
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Post by robtronik » Tue Feb 28, 2006 3:35 pm

american empire building?

Why in the world would we start in the middle east?

Think about it.

Canada and mexico and south america would be easier targets. Cuba woulda been our vacation spot by now.

I don't think so guys. Again, your perception of what is going is warped.

We didn't start this thing (we were attacked you know), but the philosophy of taking out rougue nations is their peril, not ours (as you can well see). Taliban, gone. Saddam, out. Al Qaeda, desperately trying to remain intact and losing every day.

Empire building? Let me just say that it is very much on our minds the dependence on oil that makes these regions (including Venezuela, btw) an achilles heel. Even Bush has stated that alternative fuel sources need to be created. There is too much money and influence floating around those regions that are ruled by fascists dictatorships.

You guys want to look for bad guys? You are looking in the wrong direction people.

Like I said, who wants to eliminate free speech? Who wants to eliminate the rights of women? who wants end religious tolerance? Who wants sharia law?

yep, you guessed it: radical islamists who use terrorist means to achieve their objectives.

This is also a war of ideas and right now, they are winning the smaller battles of ideas with people like yourselves because they have you convinced that their war is justified and the real enemy is the U.S.. That's too bad, IMO.

rob.

forgie
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Post by forgie » Tue Feb 28, 2006 4:11 pm

Mate, if you'd actually responded to what had been said, then I might have taken you seriously. Considering your post, I'm not sure if there's any point in trying to argue with you, since you've already shown that you aren't taking part in a debate, you're just telling people they're wrong. You're post contains untruths - if you really want someone who is informed to point them out to you, just ask. If you just want a flame war, don't bother.

Ideological blindness occurs in all political persuasions; I was pissed off when I walked through my old uni today, seeing the socialist political groups recruiting naive first year students. Then I saw members of the "Young Liberals" (the conservative party in Australia) trying to recruit members too. I guess the only part that's not so bad is that the young socialists might become moderate with age and experience, whereas a young conservative is not likely to change his ways.

My point is: I love a good debate. I don't love a barrage of 'status quo' notions that are based on spin-doctoring rather then reality. Half of what you say is true as an isolated piece of information, but what's important is the context and history. Without context and history, no man can be righteous about his politics. It's as simple as that.
Last edited by forgie on Tue Feb 28, 2006 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jeskola
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Post by jeskola » Tue Feb 28, 2006 4:20 pm

robtronik wrote:We didn't start this thing (we were attacked you know)
a little research perhaps :wink:

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Post by Morphos » Tue Feb 28, 2006 6:25 pm

robtronik wrote: Yeah, yeah, I know. Carrots and tomatoes are vegetables, therefore they both taste the same.
Tomatoes are fruit.

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