Essential mixing with Ableton Live. How it all started....

rolfski · Post by **rolfski** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 12:15 am

I was listening to Coldcut's Essential mix from Pete Tong's last BBC radio show, done in Ableton Live. Coldcut's technique, containing lots of mixing and cutting, can relatively easily be done in Ableton Live as we all know. With the ever growing popularity of Live, this style of mixing will be heard more and more the forthcoming years. However, this style reminds me strongly of a time more than 10 years ahead of Coldcut's 1995 pioneer mix "Journeys by DJ's "!

Back in the days, in 1983, a guy called Ben Liebrand became the godfather of grandmixing, using a similar technique compared to the Coldcut mix style. Only he used a good old tape recorder!

For the making of his yearly Grand Mix, he locked himself up for 30 days, sweating 12 hours a day. The Grandmix was broadcasted on dutch national radio between 1983 and 1992 and made Ben Liebrand the absolute pioneer in remixing because of the very sophisticated techniques he used. Check out http://www.liebrand.nl/studio/index.html (in english) to see some of the amazing vintage equipment and techniques. You can probably download some bootleg Grandmix 1983 to 1992 from the internet.

So the one that schooled out todays Ableton community is not Coldcut but Ben Liebrand...

rolfski · Post by **rolfski** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:31 pm

I guess most forum readers are a lot younger then I am (38 ) so maybe I should explain a bit more about the unknown origins of mixing. Of course mixing records became popular at the beginning of the eighties with the introduction of the 12" format, which allowed for long fade-out/ fade-ins at the break of a record.

However, besides live mixing or dj-ing, there was another subculture that became especially hugely popular in Holland and can be referred to as "home-mixing". Home-mixing (a term introduced by Ben Liebrand btw) was all about mixing, cuting and pasting with a reel-to-reel tape recorder. The AKAI GX 4000 D 4-track being the very most popular model because it was cheap, reliable and multitrack.

The reason for the huge popularity of home-mixing in Holland was Ben Liebrand's show: "In the mix". The popularity of Ben Liebrands mixes generated a lot of attention for home-mixing on dutch national radio. Within years there were several weekly mix shows and every teenager in Holland was struggling day-in day out with a taperecorder to get his mix broadcasted.

Besides his mix shows, Ben Liebrand also got welknown for his mash-ups which where called "minimixes" then. So this man can also be regarded as the godfather of mash-ups.

Ben Liebrand's mixes became also famous international. So for me, that makes him the Pete Tong of the eighties and the godfather of essential mixing and mash-ups...

Goran@Irrupt · Post by **Goran@Irrupt** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 pm

i'm 32 and i'm sorry to say that i've never heard about Ben Liebrand. i always thought that Grandmaster Flash was the father of mixing as we know it. i'll check out Ben's work for sure.
one thing i can say though, Coldcut's "Journeys by DJ's" is one hell of a mix that literaly changed my life and made me wanting to be a dj.
never became that good, though...

w

rolfski · Post by **rolfski** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:14 pm

Grandmaster Flash is the godfather of live mixing. In that you're right. But in non-live mixing, Ben Liebrand is one of the main pioneers.

CJPH · Post by **CJPH** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:38 am

You can also check out Double Dee & Steinski which was cutting up stuff etc.

Larry Levan also.

nicka · Post by **nicka** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:56 am

you wanna have a read of 'last night a DJ saved my life' by bill brewster and frank ????

its all about the history of the dj rite from the scientits and sailors who who ever claimed to be the first to mix, but from the jamacan sound systems and the disco scene in new york rite thru to the hacienda and the 90's DJ's

rolfski · Post by **rolfski** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 1:46 am

Let me correct here something. Folks like Ben Liebrand were not the first ones in real mixing, hell no. They did however take non-live mixing to the next level. That's what made them pioneers.

I just brought up this topic to point out how far we have become with apps like Live. Back in those days (I was a teenager then) you have to fysically cut some magnetic tape to make an edit. Applying fx and other extra stuff was exlusive to a few wizzards.

Glad you brougt up Larry Levan btw. he was a class of its own..

nicka · Post by **nicka** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 1:57 am

rolfski wrote:Let me correct here something. Folks like Ben Liebrand were not the first ones in real mixing, hell no. They did however take non-live mixing to the next level. That's what made them pioneers.

I just brought up this topic to point out how far we have become with apps like Live. Back in those days (I was a teenager then) you have to fysically cut some magnetic tape to make an edit. Applying fx and other extra stuff was exlusive to a few wizzards.

Glad you brougt up Larry Levan btw. he was a class of its own..

if ur into the whole tape slicing you wanna check out greg wilson (electrofunkroots) who when djs not only uses ableton live, records, cd's, dat and a reel-2-reel machine!!

he also plays some funky ass 80's electrofunk

eddit · Post by **eddit** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:51 am

rolfski wrote:Let me correct here something. Folks like Ben Liebrand were not the first ones in real mixing, hell no. They did however take non-live mixing to the next level. That's what made them pioneers.

An interesting aside...
Check out the DVD scratch, it has some priceless footage from a live performance of brainfreeze, Cut chemist and DJ shadow.

Steinski is there taking it all in. He basically says he freaked out when he heard what they were doing, because they had pretty much taken his detailed studio re-edits, and recreated the same type of thing live with multiple copies of the original 7"s

The sound just moves on so quickly, the power available at an entry level continuously taking massive leaps

robin · Post by **robin** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 4:05 am

nicka wrote:
rolfski wrote:Let me correct here something. Folks like Ben Liebrand were not the first ones in real mixing, hell no. They did however take non-live mixing to the next level. That's what made them pioneers.

I just brought up this topic to point out how far we have become with apps like Live. Back in those days (I was a teenager then) you have to fysically cut some magnetic tape to make an edit. Applying fx and other extra stuff was exlusive to a few wizzards.

Glad you brougt up Larry Levan btw. he was a class of its own..
if ur into the whole tape slicing you wanna check out greg wilson (electrofunkroots) who when djs not only uses ableton live, records, cd's, dat and a reel-2-reel machine!!

he also plays some funky ass 80's electrofunk

he uses PCDJ, not ableton live.

audiojunkies · Post by **audiojunkies** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:52 am

CJPH wrote:You can also check out Double Dee & Steinski which was cutting up stuff etc.

Larry Levan also.

Double Dee and Steinski followed, Grandmaster Flash and like you say took it to the next level, with the Lessons 1,2,3 series which were originally done for Tommy Boy records to promote an LP as part of a mix competition.

These seminal cut ups became cult listening on UK & US radio legal and Pirate, Coldcut heard and played the cut ups on thier Kiss Fm show and then produced a cut up of thier own, which was equally collecible "say kids what time is it" only 200 were originally pressed and it changed hands for £25 quid at the time in 1986 which was a lot of money then. I was lucky enough to get one from Coldcut back in the day.

Ben Leibrand was more of a club mixer rather than cut up DJ and his mixes were smoother, and more club / soul disco than cut up, you could say more commercial - he mixed for DMC

audiojunkies · Post by **audiojunkies** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:54 am

robin wrote:
nicka wrote:
rolfski wrote:Let me correct here something. Folks like Ben Liebrand were not the first ones in real mixing, hell no. They did however take non-live mixing to the next level. That's what made them pioneers.

I just brought up this topic to point out how far we have become with apps like Live. Back in those days (I was a teenager then) you have to fysically cut some magnetic tape to make an edit. Applying fx and other extra stuff was exlusive to a few wizzards.

Glad you brougt up Larry Levan btw. he was a class of its own..
if ur into the whole tape slicing you wanna check out greg wilson (electrofunkroots) who when djs not only uses ableton live, records, cd's, dat and a reel-2-reel machine!!

he also plays some funky ass 80's electrofunk
he uses PCDJ, not ableton live.

Cant beleive that he uses PCDJ - PCDJ is a kids toy!!!! Greg Wilson would do better than that, He produced most of UK Electro i have spoken to him many times.

robin · Post by **robin** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:57 am

audiojunkies wrote: Cant beleive that he uses PCDJ - PCDJ is a kids toy!!!! Greg Wilson would do better than that, He produced most of UK Electro i have spoken to him many times.

I too have spoken to him many times (and have DJ'd on the same bill etc). And yes, he uses PCDJ last time I looked.

He uses it in conjunction with a tape machine too to provide effects and play the odd edit.

Green Lemon · Post by **Green Lemon** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:39 pm

eddit wrote: An interesting aside...
Check out the DVD scratch, it has some priceless footage from a live performance of brainfreeze, Cut chemist and DJ shadow.

Steinski is there taking it all in. He basically says he freaked out when he heard what they were doing, because they had pretty much taken his detailed studio re-edits, and recreated the same type of thing live with multiple copies of the original 7"s

Yeah, that's a great moment in that movie.

Coldcut was pretty much the seminal influence in my DJing, with their Let Us Play/Replay albums.

You guys familiar with the work of Keith Haring, a painter who chronicled (in addition to other things) the development of bboy culture out of capoeira, djs, and discos?

belmiro · Post by **belmiro** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:00 pm

Cool DJ Herc was one of the first recognized DJ's to extend, cut up and mix tracks together back in the 70's... Grandmaster Flash came out of those New York street party scene later!

In terms of productions, it was people like Larry Levan and Francois Kevorkian who did the first remixes and extended edits for clubs in the late seventies.

It could be argued that the techniques are older coming from Jamaica.

Personally speaking I think Coldcut suck...but that's just my opinion!