20k to spend

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
HD1
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Post by HD1 » Sun Feb 05, 2006 1:15 am

steady up radeon,
the purpose of this post is to trash some ideas around. I have the money, and I have my own priorities. coming in at 10k, a protools system is not suitable to me. Thats 50% of what I have to spend. I could get a tricked-out pc, a rosetta 800 , surround monitor setup and a plush preamp for that much. And that , in terms of sonic quality, is the better route to take. Not to mention a uad and tc powercore with those lovely oxford plugins. The chair suggestions make great sense to me, as with my current setup I'm just using a table and a chair - and its hurting my back, and puts me off doing stuff sometimes. Maybe you're in a comfortable chair and you take this for granted, or you have your room setup real nice and comfortable. Or maybe you're a spineless worm and you're incapable of having a sore back?

'He could have HD system + Live + analog front end + some decent ouboxes.'

you're right, I could...but it does not suit me because
at close to 10k for a basic hd system ALONE , its too much of the money for me to spend, then you need to buy a pc anyways, and the rosetta 800 still sounds better so since purity of sound is my main priority, I would want to interface it to my sequencer - by your suggestions I'd have spent all my money and barely have anything left to spend on a synth. I'd have the industry standard for recording, but nothing to record.

oh, and I said fuck protools, not fuck you. Dont be offended by association. I'm fully aware of all that protools can do, and more importantly what it costs. All you have to do is rattle off a list of things you'd spend 20g's on - you dont need to turn it into an exchange of flames, or come to the conclusion I'm not serious guy whos not haveing 20k I no think anythinks about you say. I serieous money in bank yes. money in bank it good spent on nuendo it too industry standard me like the sound in the movies and the games yes so it make so useful future and money too mackie control surface. hacthally yez you rite no money I have me schizophrenix mega time bored.

hambone, I know what you mean. But I'm not really a musician. I'm studying film and wish to specialise in sound design for games ... so sound sources appeal to me, and the integrity of the sound

anyways just to clarify - I'm not looking, or at least I didnt intend to request a conclusive answer - its true I have my own ideas, I just wanted to see what everyone else would spend the money on (in terms of audio stuff...) and I hope it doesnt stop here as the cheque dont clear until wednesday!

radeon
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Post by radeon » Sun Feb 05, 2006 1:57 am

RopeyPunter wrote:steady up radeon, beep::beep:: beep etc
I keep to my side. your not serious player :wink: If you still postings here in one month with photo of new studio I apologise to you OK :wink:
Last edited by radeon on Sun Feb 05, 2006 1:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

HD1
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Post by HD1 » Sun Feb 05, 2006 1:58 am

:roll: you probably dont understand any of the big words I'm using, My mother who works with severely handicapped people taught me not to get angry with incessant mongoloids. So I leave you to your side radeon.

Machinate
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Post by Machinate » Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:25 am

radeon wrote:RODNEY PUTER
is not serious guy hes not haveing 20k because he dont think anythiinks from suggestions but important he not pay any sense to suggestings of good hardware or pro tool that I mention early.
uhm... guess what... he asked about this already!
Rodney wrote: Also considering picking up protools, and lightpiping live into protools. Anyone got any experience in this realm ?
But I'm guessing you don't care about that? It's not cool to attack the new people on this forum, dude. Give it a rest. Don't believe him? Fine - walk away.
mbp 2.66, osx 10.6.8, 8GB ram.

forge
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Post by forge » Sun Feb 05, 2006 7:55 am

course it depends what music you're doing

But me I'd get a G5 QUAD + extra wide screen - AND a new mac book (if ya got the quad who cares if the macbook is still teething, it would still be the bollocks) and some shit hot genelec monitors -

I agree with the ones here who said monitors first, I'm still on NS10s but I'd go some decent Genelecs in a flash if I had the cash - but there are loads of other good ones, someone said mackies

+ if you dont have it NI Komplete (3 - though I'm still on 2) + waves diamond (assuming you have live 5 + operator of course!) - dont know anything about hardware any more, havent used it since I got Live + Komplete + waves - IMO the NI sounds are so good the inconvenience of syncing and recording real hardware is totally unneccessary now, and the waves plugs are totally top notch

as for audio interface I'd think about something that acts as both audio and controler - like those Tascam units (2488 or something) but there must be better around now

with that you would never want for more

HD1
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Post by HD1 » Sun Feb 05, 2006 9:24 am

well, for altiverb alone I'd like to pick up a mac, but nebulae raised some good points in another thread. He said intel will be releasing a new cpu this summer, so that puts me off spending large money on a pc cpu, and as for the mac...well, I've got a laptop now and in all honesty I would be as well off with a desktop. Just because I've always had lots of other stuff to haul around with the lappie, so why comprimise on performance and cash? In the grand scheme of things I want to have a 'studio' cpu , and a 'performance' cpu. I'm thinking about a PC for the studio, and an Imac for performing. Imacs are portable enough for me, and in the studio it will be handy to have the mac-pc divide bridged. Been lusting after altiverb for some time now. So I may go for the Imac for now, and wait till the next intel pc cpu is released before picking up a studio monster. Only thing I havent decided finally on yet is due to field recording. I'm lucky to be in this situation, where I have no responsibilities and I've been given this money to do exactly this, so apologies if this whole topic seems vulgar....which it kind of is considering how most people do without. Well, I'm serious about field recording, so edirol and tascam have some pretty nice units compatable with xlr mics (the tascam one even has phantom power) coming in at around 1500...however, I'm thinking I could spend the extra 500 and get a metric halo 2882 with dsp, and could use that for performing as well as field recording. Only problem is, from what I can gather they are marketing it as 'portable' ...but there is no mention of battery life (or if it draws power from the lappie) on their product info page, nor does it seem like there's any windows drivers...so its portable in the sense you can move it from A-B , but its just like a desktop unit in that you need an electrical outlet....anyone know if thats the case? Anyone seen those toshiba libretto laptops ? ultra small lappies perfect for field recording or (digital photography) with a mobile interface.... but you wouldnt want to design a webpage or do a gig with one.

I heard some reaktor 4 stuff. It was , in all honesty, one of the best soft-synth stuff I've heard. Sheerly for its 'depth'. It sounds analogue.....I've heard virsyn tera , and cube by the same company, both quality sounding and posessing great timbral sounds....but lacking that 'real' sound reaktor put across. On the other hand, I've read some very unfavourable material about NI, in terms of after sales quality, and how they only allow one authorisation, and on going bugs that never get addressed without costing more money. I'd much rather get a nord modular g2, maybe a nord lead too ...coupled with that juicey apogee interface and a quality preamp (maybe aphex or tla...havent gotten to that stage in research yet) ... not to mention since I dont have to pay this money back, I'll have a clean slate and I'll be able to afford second hand synths from ebay and record those suckers at mouthwatering apogee quality. Plus software dont hold its value. In ten years, you're copy of NI komplete will be comparitively , and only fiscaly, worthless...where-as hardware holds its value, could even become worth more in some cases (perhaps passing it on to the kids at that stage). But again , like you say there is some great sounding software out there. Which I'll aquire later, and the dust has settled with the mactels and intel have a new pc cpu.

have you been to the NI website recently ? they announced something called 'kore' at namm...the spiel goes thus:

KORE will change the way you produce and perform. As the world’s first Universal Sound Platform, it integrates all your software instruments and effects into a single, unified interface. KORE gives you total control of your sound and instant, hands-on access with a real analog feel.

you gotta watch out for those ambivilant terms. Just look at final scratch, I dont even know what they plugged that as....but its just a normal (poorly manufactured) audio interface, which they sell as a magic box and charge you a hiked price as a result. I basically hold that kind of business practice with contempt, and there's no way I'll be an early adopter for anything they release.

On the topic of software, bugs and upgrades , I'd like to refer you to "The common law of business balance" which the English social reformer John Ruskin (1819-1900) worded over 100 years ago and which is as relevant today as it was at that time:

"There is hardly anything in the world that someone cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price alone are that person's lawful prey.
It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that is all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do.
The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done.
If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better."

not completely relevant, but its worth noting that business is business, and they will flog us ill-prepared software, because we will buy it. And the bug fixes too. ill prepared hardware is alot easier to return, and compared to software is a nuisance no-one is willing to accept for almost any length of time. business gets away with alot of shit with software, partially due to the smoke-screen thats created by 'compatability' issues...but that's another discussion I dont want to get into on this thread at least!

forge
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Post by forge » Sun Feb 05, 2006 10:09 am

all good points,

but what you were saying about the desktop - I dont really know anything about them, but TWO DUAL 2.8GHZ G5s has got to be a hell of a smokin setup!! :D :D :D :D :D Thats like 10GHZ MAC!! ("MAC" here meaning even more than ten gig in PC terms!)

I have been one of the more vocal ones slagging off Apple on this site for being so behind on laptops, but on the desktop side, the G5 is still a good chip and if i could afford a Quad for a studio I would have to be given some good reasons not to get one, for sure.

But then I guess with all this intel stuff I guess all the developers will eventually trash current mac binaries (or will universal still work with G5s? I dont know what they mean by universal here...) that would be very annoying if that were the case, but I guess would be very typical of apple

I guess you could get an equivolent PC to the quad - like 2 x dual 4G xeon or something

but god I'd love a mac that powerful

or maybe I'm behind the times, the new way to say that is 'god I'd love OSX on something that powerful'

It's true NI has alot of flaws - for me it works fine, but I'm on PC and it is particularly mac users who seem to have most problems - so theres another PC vote I guess.

And you're also right about hardware and value, but then I sold my Yamaha A3000 for £50 GBP because I couldnt even turn the thing on and actually use it any more - it just became totally redundant, there was not a single thing it could do that I couldnt do in my PC a million times more easily and flexibly, and my yamaha CS2x has long gone too (mainly due to moving to the other side of the planet - I probably would have kept that as a great controller)

It totally depends what you want to do - for me that's what I'd do because for me it's totally for my own music, so my priorities are to make it as easy as possible, and for me that's software

but you're right, in 10 years you might not give a crap about music any more and sell the whole lot off and by a boat - in which case you'll be glad you stayed hardware!! :wink:

radeon
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Post by radeon » Sun Feb 05, 2006 11:38 am

Ropeypunter A HD pro tools system can be buyed for less than 5k. For 10k you can haveing an hd2 easy. I buyed a protools hd1 and pro control for little less than 10k.
So pleasing to tell m?. Why a pro tools + Analog front end + Live + analog outboard not be for your needs? I cannot understanding if you chasinh sound purity why a fancy chair and monotors will help you to hear sound excellence?

So I say before If you buying the things please post in one month with your new twentyk setup and I will absaloute apologise to you. But so for today I dont think you serious you like to write long postings and you dont write proper studio pro question and you ask peoples on ableton forum. :wink: So nothing that so wrong really it is cool.

kenn michael
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Post by kenn michael » Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:37 pm

forge wrote:But then I guess with all this intel stuff I guess all the developers will eventually trash current mac binaries (or will universal still work with G5s? I dont know what they mean by universal here...) that would be very annoying if that were the case, but I guess would be very typical of apple
Universal Binaries work on both G4/G5/PPC chips and Intel chips. The universal part means that the one application will run native on both architectures.

HD1
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Post by HD1 » Sun Feb 05, 2006 6:35 pm

hey radeon, I'm sort of ignoring you. I would just like to know one thing, have you read all my posts and have you understood every single word and sentiment? If the answer is yes (and you are NOT using altavista babelfish to translate), then feel free to say what you wish. If the answer is no, then please desist from suggesting, for some bizarre reason, that this is a hoax.

I cant find a protools system that cheap, do you mind posting a link to the store that I can get a cheap protools system ?
http://www.digidesign.com/products/hd/
A basic Pro Tools|HD professional system starts at just under $10,000 USD.

Pro Tools|HD 1 system for PCI
Pro Tools|HD 1 Accel system for PCIe
US List Price: $7,995
Both the Digidesign® Pro Tools|HD® 1 system for PCI and the Pro Tools|HD 1 Accel system for PCI Express (PCIe) use a single HD Core card (for PCI) or Accel Core card (for PCIe) to deliver up to 32 channels of I/O* and up to 96 simultaneous audio tracks with no stress on the computer.

192 I/O
US List Price: $3,995
192 I/O, the flagship of the Pro Tools|HD interface family, is the best-sounding audio interface ever offered from Digidesign, rivaling similar products costing more than twice its price. In addition to support for up to 16 channels of analog and digital input and output, 192 I/O features a wide range of analog and digital I/O options to choose from, including 8 channels of high-definition, pristine-quality analog I/O, 8 channels of AES/EBU, 8 channels of TDIF, 16 channels of ADAT, and 2 additional channels of AES/EBU or S/PDIF digital I/O.


so it actually comes to 12k , on digidesigns website.

apogee rosetta sounds better than the protools interface. apogee rosetta has better dithering algorhtims for taking a 192k song and turning it into 44.1 for cd. An apogee rosetta and cubase (for example) is much cheaper than any protools hd system I can find, plus with the spare money I can buy uad1 card and tc powercore card, and get some excellent plugins, and also buy a surround genelec setup , a high-quality preamp, and more...

with the same money I can get a basic protools hd1 setup, without the cpu.

so not only is it financially more viable, but far from sacrificing sound quality - I am actually gaining sound quality. I suggest you do some research on apogee and the rosetta 800 before telling me this is a hoax and a protools interface sounds better.

anyways, please post some links to where I, or anyone else, can get a 'cheap' protools setup. Cos on the digidesign website its marked as 12,000 dollars

If I could get protools, I definately would! for many reasons....its an industry standard (but it seems nuendo is better for making sound for film or games - which is what I'm interested in) , and there are some plugins made just for it that sound amazing, I've read. Also, a course I intend to join after college teaches in protools so it would be great to have a headstart.

and why are you so dead against getting a decent chair? are you crazy or something? I'm not getting a chair over protools, a chair aint gonna take too much of a sizeable chunk out of the budget. You talk about 'serious pros' and what their opinion 'must be' ....but I believe a serious pro would agree a proper chair is definately worthwhile

i think you are the one who isnt serious, you must have problems with maths or something

went to the gypsy
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20 K

Post by went to the gypsy » Sun Feb 05, 2006 10:42 pm

- $4000 computer & xtra HD (MAC of course)
- $2500 video monitor
- $1500 RME Fireface 800
- $500 audio monitor
- $500 workstation desk
- $2000 software ( I'm not thinking LIVE)
- $500 foam
- $150 couch (for homies)
- $500 cables & stands & misc
- $6500 kind sinsimillion
---------------------------------------
total = $20,000

congratulations!
-wTTg

went to the gypsy
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P.S.

Post by went to the gypsy » Sun Feb 05, 2006 10:46 pm

i don't care.

forge
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Post by forge » Mon Feb 06, 2006 4:28 am

another vote for the decent chair - I am actually starting to have problems with my arms etc because of bad ergonomics - it is VERY important

dont worry about radeo, he's a bit of a troll who likes dumping shit on people...

DeadlyKungFu
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Post by DeadlyKungFu » Mon Feb 06, 2006 5:58 am

What kind of chair would you recommend? I saw the link posted but I don't one with arms, I play guitar and arms interfere.

I have two Herman Miller Aero chairs at work, nice chair, for a $20k budget, I think they're $500. Too work-like for me to want in the studio.
http://www.hermanmiller.com/CDA/SSA/Pro ... p8,00.html
They also come w/o arms.

forge
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Post by forge » Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:04 am

DeadlyKungFu wrote:What kind of chair would you recommend? I saw the link posted but I don't one with arms, I play guitar and arms interfere.

I have two Herman Miller Aero chairs at work, nice chair, for a $20k budget, I think they're $500. Too work-like for me to want in the studio.
http://www.hermanmiller.com/CDA/SSA/Pro ... p8,00.html
They also come w/o arms.
yeah I used to work in the AV dept at Goldman Sachs and you know those bankers have some serious cash and I saw the best kind of chair ever then, every sq in was adjustable and they felt like you were floating

me and a mate spent ages trying to figure out how we'd get one out of the building, but never did, sucurity was too tight!

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