[OT] Help to stay away from alcohol needed

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smutek
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Post by smutek » Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:43 pm

forge wrote:Smutek the main reason you have the take you do is becuause yours was smack which is alot harder to say no to for anyone
My take is based on my experience with drugs and alcohol as a whole.

Smack is hard, and it is addictive yes. But once your hooked on smack its pretty much impossible to deny there is a problem. With alocohol one can go on their entire life and easily deny there is a problem. Alcohol is legal, and it is a socially accepted drug. There are pubs and bars on every corner.

For me, I had a problem with drinking and drugs for many years before I ever tried heroin, people used to tell me. I never believed it, I just liked to party and have fun. Once I tried heroin I got hooked and it was very obvious that there was a problem. And it took me 6 years as a heroin addict to realize that my problem wasn't heroin, or even weed, or beer, or vodka. My problem was not drugs or alocohol, my problem was me. And in order for me to address that problem the first thing I had to stop was drugs and alcohol.

I don't think any drug, or alcohol is bad, but I realized that I can not control my use of drugs and alcohol, the only way for me to control it is to not do it at all, so I stopped.

As to addiction, if you use heroin regularly for say, a month - your body will become dependent on it and you will be addicted. This goes for 99.9 percent of those who will use heroin.

With alcohol, one is less likely to become physically addicted, or alocoholic. There is a much smaller percentage of the population that is genetically pre-disposed to alhoholism.

If one is an alcoholic, the dangers of alcohol withdrawl are much more dangerous, requiring medical treatment. People can actually die from alcohol withdrawl. Heroin withdrawl on the other hand, while very unconfortable, is not life threatening. A person can lock themselves in a room and kick heroin on their own, no matter how severe the addiction; medical treatment just makes it comfortable.

Thats the physical side, the tricky part is the psychological side. The compulsion to drink, or smoke weed, or shoot heroin.

Like you said, a person can drink their entire lives, even get wasted fairly regularly, but never actually have any problems that compell them to quit.

But another person can drink, lose everything, get arrested multiple times, or just feel really bad about their drinking, and even though they are not physically dependent, or an alcoholic per the technical definition, they are still be unable to stop due to their compulsion to drink.

So yes, in a lot of ways heroin is a very dangerous, and definitely a highly addictive drug. But in many ways alcohol is just as dangerous. In my opinion one of the main things that makes alcohol so dangerous is the fact that it is legal, and is socially acceptable. One can always compare and say "atleast I am not out there doing drugs". It's easier to deny having a problem, for the drinker and for the drinkers family and friends.

The point of all of this is, no drug is better or worse. Some are more potent, some are more addictive, but none are "good or "bad". The fact that I did heroin, and my friend did vodka does not necessarilly make us that much different. The only real difference was our choice of drug. The ultimate question is, how does it affect you and what, if anything, do you want to do about it.

I totally agree that loads of people drink all the time and never develop problems, and drinking beers with friends was a nice time indeed, but I also realize it is not necessary inorder to live a full, happy, fun, and productive life.

If this were the first time, or even the second that conny mentioned having a drinking problem I might have just written "good luck" and "you can do it" or something. But conny has mentioned this numerous times.

So, a drug or alcohol "problem" can take many forms. The definition of this problem lies in the individual. The only person that knows if conny has a drinking problem is conny. And conny, the only way you are going to answer that question is through deep self honesty. One does not necessarilly have to get drunk and crash their car into a bus load of nuns to have a problem.

Again, a good rule of thumb:

If you think you have a problem you probably do.
If you think you have a problem and have tried to stop unsuccesfully you have a problem.

You should stay out of the pubs for a while conny. You want to stop drinkng, there is absolutely no reason for you to go there.

djadonis206
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Post by djadonis206 » Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:05 pm

smutek wrote: ...the tricky part is the psychological side. The compulsion to drink, or smoke weed, or shoot heroin.
BINGO!

That's why there is no real cure...no magic pill or solution that is 110% to cure you of that mental obsession

It sucks because all it takes is a sound, a neighborhood, a voice or a familiar person to trigger that mental obsession. Once that starts and you have zero defence against that first use, your screwed

pretty dismall huh?

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conny
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Post by conny » Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:03 pm

smutek wrote: If this were the first time, or even the second that conny mentioned having a drinking problem I might have just written "good luck" and "you can do it" or something. But conny has mentioned this numerous times.
Interesting! Sometimes I guess one waves the flag behind one's own back.

It's to early to say, but I think maybe my drinking problem is more of a habit developed to handle (avoid handling) other problems then it is a "real addiction". It's like this reaction when something goes bad (I suddenly find a new bill I had forgotten about...) - "have to calm down with some beer", "have to got to a dark pub and mourn with some bottles to feel really sad and hopeless".
A long walk does the job better, if one gets used to change reaction patterns. I hope.

// C
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forge
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Post by forge » Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:45 pm

thanks Smutek- always enjoy reading your lengthy insights! :wink:

I guess this is what I'm trying to contribute to this thread - is conny's drinking symptom or cause

but you understand it's as much myself I'm asking this

Last night I wrote that big long speech and smoked about 3 or 4 cones and drank 3 or 4 or 5 litres of home brew while I was in the process

Admittedly I havent been doing it as much latley, but I have been laid up with a really bad back and crapping myself a bit because I have had to get loads of full on X-rays and blood/urine tests and stuff mainly to see if Im getting what my dad had - and he suffered badly till he died - he once said to me there was a chance I could get it and now I've spent nearly 2 weeks practically unable to walk without alot of pain

So again, a case of something is worrying, drown it out, and I do think usually it's more of a reaction to something for me, but then I havent stopped for long enough to tell

so off to the doctor to get results this morning and hope for the best....

zstowasser
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amino acids

Post by zstowasser » Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:38 am

You guys should check out amino acids. It's the best thing that has happened to me. I took them for 3 months until I was 'normal' and now I eat a balanced meal 3 times a day along with snacks to keep me going and not drive me to drink to feel better.

If you are doing drugs (caffeine, alcohol, weed, etc) you are releasing natural chemicals in your body to make you feel a certain way. If you are not eating meals for whatever reasons your body will also use your stores of chemicals to keep you alive and happy.

L-Glutamine is your Emergency fuel source for your entire brain. It keeps you stable, calm and alert.

L-Tyrosine & L-Phenylalanine make the chemicals Dopamine and Norepinephrine. These affect your arousal, energy, mental focus and drive.

GABA - calmness and relaxation if you're burned out and unable to relax and loosen up.

DL-Phenylalanine and D-Phenylalanine make Endorphins - very very powerful. This makes me feel like I'm on Ecstacy sometimes! But totally sober. If your girl crys easily give her this! If you "Love" or "Crave" certain foods or drugs, this is what you need.

5-HTP [halfway between tryptophan and serotonin] (anti-depressant). This will give you emotional stability and self-confidence. If you take this every night you will sleep alot deeper too.

Melatonin. Melatonin is made from Serotonin. Melatonin is made when your body sees darkness - its important to turn off your lights an hour or so before bed. So If you are low on Serotonin or have the lights on full blast up until bed, it will be hard for you to go or even stay asleep.

I learned all this information from "The Diet Cure". Its a quick read and affordable. You can buy it from Amazon.com. It has all the answers, I've given the book to friends and family and they were just as amazed as I was. It really worked!

I agree with everyone else about being productive while sober. I wasted a few years of my life in a drunken haze. Had alot of great gigs and parties but I never was able to write my own music. Now my production skills have vastly improved and i'm on my way to living my dream of releasing my own records..

I still 'go big' a few times a year - usually with old drinking buddies - so avoiding them is advice I can give to you. I have a fun time while I'm out but then I feel like shit for a few days - I used to get sick alot too. But now I'm eating a proper diet and taking my vitamins so my immune system is strong enough to handle a night out. If I'm by myself or with my girlfriend I can resist drinking because I am focused on producing or whatever but as soon as the drinking buddies come around, it's hard to resist. I must remember how it makes me feel afterwards when I think about starting.

Whenever I exercise I feel great - but it's so hard to get motivated. Especially by myself. I have new motivation though. I bought an exercise ball and some weights. I have them near the "turntables". So while I'm digitizing my songs for use in Ableton I can work out, also I'm doing it while watching TV. It's helping. But I wish I had a 'buddy' to work out with. Same goes for producing. heh.

Good thing you have admitted you have a problem, you're on the right path. I highly reccomend you getting the book to learn about how your body works when reacting to drugs. Then you can put the 'good' things in your body that nature intended instead of the 'bad' things such as drugs.

If I can say one thing about the book - Eat 20grams of protein at EVERY meal (that is 3 eggs or 4oz of beef/fish/chicken) along with 30% of calories being good fats (olive oil, butter - no fried foods or margarine). Eat as many whole grains and vegetables as you can. And make sure you keep fruit and nuts around for snacks to have as soon as you wake up (if you're starving), mid morning, mid afternoon and before bed. Drinking a little bit of milk before bed really helps if I'm kind of hungry before bed.

Hope this helps guys. I've learned alot from this forum so I wanted to share a little bit back :)

Respect.

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:)

Post by missjade » Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:04 am

hey conny,
you sound like you're being very confident through this, so that's kickass! :wink:

i don't know, i'm not gonna lecture you on what you should or shouldn't do.. but i think that you may be putting too much pressure on yourself to get a quick fix to a deep rooted problem, and it might undermine your efforts to have a true recovery. a week sober is a great accomplishment-- you are no longer desensitizing yourself to your feelings or surroundings, and sound optimistic about this process. but i think it might be a setup for disaster if you are gonna be around alcohol/drunk people in the pub if it's such a recent step for you.

it kinda sounds like when you're getting out of an abusive, fucked up relationship, and you think that you could still 'try to be friends' immediately afterwards. it'll stir up such emotional undercurrents, and you'll only be fighting that impulse to be with them again, even though they are a negative influence in your life. :evil:
:evil: so it's better to just cut them out completely until you've given yourself time to heal.

i'm not saying you'll never be able to handle going to parties and drinking water, but for right now you're in a vulnerable stage of sobreity and need to stay focused.. and not throwing these obstacles in your way to see if you can do it. i know you compare it to getting over phobias, but you gotta remember that phobias trigger avoidant behaviors, whereas addiction is the opposite reaction-- an all-out obsessive dependency on a substance/object/whatever. so exposure to the stimulus with panic attacks is necessary to diminish the effect, to familiarize the person with the feared object. but with addiction, you need to sever these psychological/environmental ties you have (people/places/things) that reinforce it, thereby reducing the exposure to the negative stuff & hopefully replacing them with productive, supportive things.... did that make any sense!?! :?

but, of course, you know what's best for you. i hope you are enjoying your coffee!

:mrgreen:

About staying away from pubs etc I'm not sure. Maybe I am mixing things up but part of the treatment for my panic attacks was to get accustomed to scary situations just to learn anew that they are not that scary in the end.
And I have trouble seing myself not attending friends parties, restaurants and chatting at the pub, although drinking water.

// C[/quote]

fraq
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Post by fraq » Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:05 am

I haven't read the entire thread, but would like to offer my thoughts.
(Conny) "It's to early to say, but I think maybe my drinking problem is more of a habit developed to handle (avoid handling) other problems then it is a "real addiction"."
Dude, I have the greatest respect for you. When you started this thread, not only were you brave enough to admit to yourself that you had a problem with alcohol, you were brave enough to do it on a public forum. Saying that you need help can be very hard to do.
Now, sorry if I've missed something between pages 1 and 8, but the above quote caught my attention.
Alcohol is an addictive drug. Period. What's more, it's toxic. And a depressant.
Please, my friend, what you are trying to do is difficult. Sometimes it seems like our whole culture revolves around alcohol. You mentioned before you were thinking of going to an AA meeting. Get your ass over there. You won't have to speak or join, or anything else. And there is a book by Alan Carr (the quit smoking guy) called "How to control your drinking". It has a very different approach than AA.
I just feel you need more support than you can get on an internet forum.
Please don't feel I'm knocking you in any way. I'm not.
Take care,
Fraq

eyeknow
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Re: [OT] Help to stay away from alcohol needed

Post by eyeknow » Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:15 am

gomi wrote:
don't take this the wrong way, but you should not medicate yourself with
a depressent (alcohol) if you are depressed. It will just make matters
worse.
although there is quite abit of truth to that, there is more to it.

Just in case someone is unclear about what the "depressant" in alcohol is, it's that it "depresses" your abilities as opposed to making you "depressed"

....which in turn is why many people turn to it. Oh, and that it is much much cheaper and easier to get than horse.

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Post by eyeknow » Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:29 am

FaX-01 wrote:Edit - If I might add.

I don't drink.
I used to have a bad dope habit years back and went cold turkey and haven't had a joint in over 7 years.
Long story but was in a real hideous stage of my life , lots of people I knew had died , including my partner and 3 best friends which led to me being in an abusive relationship which led to dope which isn't dealing with anything.
The whole situation nearly killed me.
Until I grew enough balls to walk away,
I have finally quit cigarettes - I am at higher risk of cancer than most so I'm really proud of myself here as my other half still smokes.
I do how ever have too take ALOT of medication to stay healthy.
Have a very strict diet for the above mentioned needs.
Have had times in my life when I was very ill and family and friends thought I was near death (every time I've managed to bounce back).
Have just had major corrective surgery as my quality of life was going to the dogs due to associated pancreatic disease which has led to insulin dependent diabetes etc etc...
I've lived with a big disease with a little name for 16 years.
Suffered lots of nasty illnesses along the way.
Have had to make major lifestyle changes for my own benefit.
Am on medication for the rest of my life.
Have stood by and watched ALOT of people I knew get sick , die or commit suicide after months of illness from same said disease.
LIFE is a precious and beautiful gift.
It truly is.
I have a great partner and fantastic family support.
That said you really need to wake up and smell the coffee dude.
You have no Idea how thankful I am to just be able to stand here today and say I have survived.
I see the pride in the faces of all the loved ones around me (my parents inparticular) , who have seen me grow stronger and become a better human being in the face of adversity.
It's been a tough slog but I am damn proud of the person I am today.
I am so grateful for the life that I have.
I just cannot understand why anyone would want to piss it away through the bottom of a gin glass myself :(.
It is really sad and disheartens me no end.
What you have is a precious gift.
Life is for the Living.
It sholdn't be taken for granted as it may not be there tomorrow.
I hope you find strength to truly start living life.
It's a wild rollercoaster ride but the ups and downs are more than worth it.
I understand that day to day living can seem unatural even at times forced and hard.
Just remember that LIVING may be hard but LIFE on the otherhand is ALWAYS BEAUTIFUL.
The AA group is there for a reason ....life is sending you a big hint.
Suck it up and take the plunge .
What have you got too loose.
Well, I relate on the big disease with a little name........seen a bunch just go away...........forever..............in a mean and dreadful death. I have no idea how I don't have it........I've got no clue at all.......really no reason.

I am truely sorry for all the problems.............truely.............. :(

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Post by forge » Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:57 am

fraq wrote:.... And there is a book by Alan Carr (the quit smoking guy)
called "How to control your drinking". It has a very different approach than AA.
.
I didnt know he'd written one for drinking - if it's anything like his smoking one then I HIGHLY recommend it - my parnter read that book, stopped smoking then and there and never mentioned it again - I was blown away and I have often though I wished he did a controlling your drinking one - that's great news! I'll have to get it.

conny
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Post by conny » Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:37 pm

Book sounds promising.
And soon this thread could become it's own paperback!
You are all great.
As for amino acids I'm sure there is a connection betwen food and drinking, at least to that extent that I've sometimes been drinking instead of eating, causing an even greater "thirst".

Exposing/avoiding is the issue right now for me, it seems. And finding the underlaying patterns, forces and demons.

Now a walk in the falling snow, buing a ticket to a theatre for tonight.

// C

PS Besides, I thing Carthago should be rebuilt 8)
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SkeptikTank
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Post by SkeptikTank » Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:01 pm

As a psychogist, I worked as a drug and alcohol councellor/therapist for 7 years. Some of my experiences.
(1) to stop or control? Research indicated that conctrolling works for some and stopping totally works best for some. Conctrolled drinking is not inpossible: it's just simpler for the majority to quit totally.
(2) some things that has been useful to my clients: Keep close attention to what you do whenever you resist an urge to drink. What do you do, where do you do it, with whom, and how? Discover and learn your from your own strategies. Every problem drinker has time when they choose not to drink, whether they notice them or not. Those instances, which we call exceptions, are key. Learn from them. After noticing what works, start to do more of it. Your own exceptions are your best teacher.
(3) Sometimes problem drinking comes in a pattern. If that is the case. Break that pattern, for example by putting something differing inbetween. In particular something that looks absurd or is a bit uncofortable. I'v clients who broke their drinking patterns by wierd things like tossing a coin whether to drink the next glass.
(4) One techique for controlling or phazing out: Never drink to glasses in a row, drink a large glass of water between each beer. After a while, two glasses. If you fail, don't panic, get back to a water between.

There is nothing that works for everyone. AA is fantistic for some but destructive to others. Controlled drinking is great for some but, does nothing for others. Find your own way, which requries attention, hard work, experiementation.

Good luck
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smutek
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Post by smutek » Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:55 pm

SkeptikTank wrote:AA is fantistic for some but destructive to others.
I agree with a lot of what you said, but how on earth could you possibly suggest that AA can be destructive in any way? Destructive? Never. Sorry, not in a million years. No disrespect meant, but I tried getting clean via the psychology route and found it to be utterly ineffective, the best advice I ever got from a psychologist, psychiatrist, therapist or counselor was to go to NA. And NA was where I got clean.

I've been involved with NA and AA in varying levels for 12 years and I have been drug and alcohol free for 6 years. I have met a lot of people with a lot of different problems, received and given help. I have seen plenty of people who just don't get it, or decide it is not for them, but not once have I ever seen an example of NA or AA being counter productive and definitely never destructive.

Again, no disrespect meant, but that statement is false.

conny
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Post by conny » Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:27 pm

SkeptikTank wrote:Controlled drinking is great for some but, does nothing for others. Find your own way, which requries attention, hard work, experiementation.
I like the approach you are suggesting.
And I do that because it resembles quite a lot of strategies and thinking that I learned (or are supposed to have learnt...) during treatment for panic attacks and anxiety.

Besides, I'm a bit stubborn. Doing it my way. As I did with tobacco.

Theatre was sold out. Planning to bake bread instead. Bought a lot of juice.

// C
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djadonis206
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Post by djadonis206 » Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:51 pm

Well hey - made it through last night without smoking any chronic or drinking

Today's a new day

Last night I got off work went to Platinum, listened to the new Mark Williams on Monoid (super Jam)

FUCK, if you're into Hydraulic Schranz - there's a new DJ PREACH on Hydraulics - it's soooooo huge it's scarey


anywayz - I listened to jams for a minute. My boy came through and swooped and we went back to the house and started a beat

Then he left and I fooled around with the beat for a minute - then I played a little San Andreas, and watched 3 episodes of SP

The old lady brought me some Burger King and I feel asleep

I made it


today is a new day though


More on topic my old sponsor called last night - actually people "from the program" are always calling which is nice
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