[OT] Help to stay away from alcohol needed

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djadonis206
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Post by djadonis206 » Thu Feb 23, 2006 2:40 am

smutek wrote:
djadonis206 wrote:SouthParkStudios.com forum ......after the "Bloody Mary" episode which not only pissed off Catholics but drunks alike
Which episode is that? I have the entire thrid season here on dvd that a friend lent me.
Smu' baby, you're a few seasons behind we're going on Season 10 - it was the final episode of Season 9

Comedy Central wont even show it again it was so baaaaad. The virgin mary squirting blood out of her ass all over the pope - yeah...

Randy Marsh gets a DUI and has to go to AA and they tell him he has a desease - at the same time a priest finds out his virgin mary statue is bleeding (out of her ass) and it's a miracle

so all these people including Randy go to the virgin mary to be cured of their illness's

when the pope shows up he says this is not a miracle because all women bleed out of their ass

the end
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smutek
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Post by smutek » Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:06 am

hehe....... sorry I missed that one!

I catch South Park when I can, which obviously isn't very often. Def one of my favs though.

forge
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Post by forge » Thu Feb 23, 2006 6:52 am

smutek wrote:
forge wrote:in light of the small bits I read I could potentially understand how a doctrine that is based on admitting you are "hopeless".......
:evil:

lol, DUDE!!! For the umpteenth time, it is not we admitted we were hopeless!!!!!!!!!
.
Smuteek, Relax!!
I'm totally going on about 2 pages of the AA bible thing my cousin showed me and I was sure they used the word hopeless, I may be wrong but I wouldnt have thought I would have had the same reaction if it said powerless - but then if it's something I didnt want to hear....

I dont know maybe I was already sceptical and just looking for an excuse, I have always felt kind of weird about the AA because my cousin has tried to push it on me many times and her 3rd "birthday" party with baloons and everything just seemed a bit strange to me - but hey she's the sober one!

:lol:

forge
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Post by forge » Thu Feb 23, 2006 6:59 am

smutek wrote: With alocohol one can go on their entire life and easily deny there is a problem. Alcohol is legal, and it is a socially accepted drug. There are pubs and bars on every corner.
You're absolutely right about that.

But I love Beer. Sweeet, sweet beer.

I wont have a word said against her I WONT.

mmm liquor eases the pain

muthafunka
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Post by muthafunka » Thu Feb 23, 2006 8:03 am

OT but FYI South Park seasons 1-9 are all available here, all legit AFAIK too

SkeptikTank
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Post by SkeptikTank » Thu Feb 23, 2006 9:54 am

Smutek: Regarding AA to be destructive to some:
The Big Book of AA is very clear about that it is about "us", not about everyone. AA is the path for the people whos path is AA. AA, lika ANY strategy to solve problems, become a problems when it is regarded as the only way. Let me modify my statement a bit: I haven't really encontered people where AA as such as been destructive. But I have seen many situations where treatment based on AA has be strongly counterproductive. AA and many of the "12-step programs" based on AA are really not the same. AA does not exclude other ways to deal with problem drinking, but the majority of the 12-steps programs I have seen, does that. Controlled drinking, which is a real posibility for at least 25 percent of problem drinkers, is excluded as a posibillity in most 12-steps programs, but the big book of AA doesn't seem to have a problems. The AA positiion seems to be "if it works for you, great, it didn't work for us, so we can't recomended it, but if it works for you, good luck". The 12-step treatments seem to regard any controlled drinking as "denial". This goes against scientific facts, and is destructive to that small group of people where controlled drinking is a better choice and total abstinice will lead to binge drinking, and thus keep people alcoholic. If you are unlucky you will encounter a 12-step zealot and not the nice, accepting and pragmatic person that most aa-people seem to be. If you encounter 12-step fundamentalism, it is not denial or resistance to walk away, but it might be a better choice to seek out another AA-group before trying controlled drinking. (and btw, most self-help groups are better than most professional programs and psychologists)
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forge
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Post by forge » Thu Feb 23, 2006 10:16 am

SkeptikTank wrote: The 12-step treatments seem to regard any controlled drinking as "denial". This goes against scientific facts, and is destructive to that small group of people where controlled drinking is a better choice and total abstinice will lead to binge drinking, and thus keep people alcoholic. ..
yeah, that's a really good point

it reminds me of something a bit the same but different: we just got a german shepherd puppy and are training it not to bite - I've been doing a bit of reading and it seems that the most current useful advice these days is to specifically avoid stopping it from biting altogether but rather teach it "bite inhibition" which is to "mouth" or bite in a soft and non injuring way, because there was a story of a guide dog putting an old woman in intensive care because the dog had never bitten in it's life then got it's tail slammed in the car door and it's natural response was to bite, and because it had not learned to "bite inhibit" it only knew one kind which could have been fatal

that's similar in a way to what you just said - by learning only abstinence and not control then you are making it so you are most likely to just binge and get out of control wheras it might actually be more useful to learn how to have more control

but again, horses for courses - we're all different

mike holiday
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Post by mike holiday » Thu Feb 23, 2006 11:37 am

THREAD JACK

well i'v been reading this thread

Conny props 1 week is a loongg ass time(if you can do a week you can do it) good job!!

but i will admit i havn't gone a day with out a drink (except when very sick ((which is very rare for me)) in like 7 + years) but i seldom have more then 2 .. i practice moderation in everything .

whatever any way back to JACKIN the thread

FORGE

i'v rased pit bulls and a pit bull puppy is like an aligator!
when my female was a pup she would snap her jaws in the air 24/7 "snap snap snap" bit eveybody!!!''. AND we let her bite whater she wanted..


this Dog can hang from her mouth for over 10 minuets...

and it workd
when she was older then a couple of months she didn't bite people anymore! and never chewed anything

Get the dog things to chew on, and lots of 'em..It will learn to diferentiate.

BUT my male

ut oh never stopped chewing things
chewed a hole in the middle of a wall... right thru it...
chewed a speeker cone
destroyed the interior of a car (worse then you can imagine)
never ever tried to chew people
had to put a muzzle on the dog when ever it was alone for over 6 months to break it

:?


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mike holiday
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Post by mike holiday » Thu Feb 23, 2006 11:43 am

conny here is a song by my favorate "traditional" band

often used as insperation to stay sober..
and the theme song for recovering addic support group "Warf Rats"

i know you are in to poetry so perhaps you will meditate on the words

the song is performed by a herion addic(dead now RIP)

Warf Rat

Old man down
way down
down, down by the docks of the city,

Blind and dirty
asked me for a dime--
dime for a cup of coffee

I got no dime but
I got time to hear his story:

My name is August West
and I love my Pearly Baker best
more than my wine
...more than My wine
more than my maker
though he's no friend of mine

Everyone said
I'd come to no good
I knew I would
Pearly believed them

Half of my life
I spent doin' time for
some other fucker's crime
Other half found me stumbling around
drunk on burgundy wine

But I'll get back
on my feet someday
The good Lord willing
if He says I may
'cause I know the life I'm
livin's no good
I'll get a new start
live the life I should

I'll get up and fly away
I'll get up and
fly away...
...fly away

Pearly's been true
true to me, true to my dying day he said
I said to him:
I'm sure she's been
I said to him:
I'm sure she's been true to you

I got up and wandered
Wandered downtown
nowhere to go
just to hang around
I got a girl
named Bonny Lee
I know that girl's been true to me
I know she's been
I'm sure she's been
true to me

robert hunter...performed by Jerry Garcia, Grateful Dead
Last edited by mike holiday on Thu Feb 23, 2006 11:48 am, edited 4 times in total.
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conny
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Post by conny » Thu Feb 23, 2006 11:44 am

mike holiday wrote: never ever tried to chew people
had to put a muzzle on the dog
Muzzle - fresh idea.
I'll go to the pub wearing a muzzle!

// C
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TonySoprano
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Post by TonySoprano » Thu Feb 23, 2006 12:50 pm

Or you could have a drink problem like Ted Striker's in Airplane!.... :)
Check out my latest mix:-
http://www.mixdepot.net/OutOfMySystem

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forge
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Post by forge » Thu Feb 23, 2006 1:04 pm

TonySoprano wrote:Or you could have a drink problem like Ted Striker's in Airplane!.... :)
he he that was such a stupid movie! :lol: :lol:

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Post by forge » Thu Feb 23, 2006 1:10 pm

mike holiday wrote:.....
chewed a hole in the middle of a wall... right thru it...
chewed a speeker cone
destroyed the interior of a car (worse then you can imagine)
never ever tried to chew people
had to put a muzzle on the dog when ever it was alone for over 6 months to break it

:?


"well well well, you can never tell"
8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O

we're losing alot of things to the chewing!

it's a crazy energy to have around, a puppy - especially with a 4 yo boy as well! the combination of the 2 - thing is they both want to play with each other rough but my boy keeps forgetting the dog has sharp teeth so we're here freaking out trying to stop the dog biting him and at the same time trying to stop him making the dog want to bite him! it's a vicious cycle - the dog seems pretty clever and quick to learn but a 4 yo boy can so easily undo all your training in about 10 seconds!

I'm still not sure if 4yo is too young, I have heard kids at that age dont have any concept at all that there is anyone in the universe besides themselves, and then some would argue it lasts until their in their 30s

ah whaddaya gunna do?

smutek
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Post by smutek » Thu Feb 23, 2006 2:19 pm

@Skeptictank,

I understand what you are saying a bit better now. AA/NA are programs of complete abstinence. My take on it, I believe that if someone has the ability to control their drinking or drug use then they are not an alcoholic or an addict.

I went to my first NA meeting, like I said, 12 years ago. I decided it was not for me. I spent the next 5 years trying to control my drug use. I thought if I just gave up the hard stuff I could go back to being "normal", just smoking weed and drinking. But eventually I realized I was never "normal" in the first place, that my drug use and my drinking had always been excessive and had always been priority number one in my life - long before the hard stuff ever came into play.

So once I realized this it took me another 9 months to accept that I needed to give it all up. And once I accepted this I got clean. So for me, I went to NA, did not like it, tried to control my use, it didn't work and ultimately I ended up doing it the NA way.

As far as NA/AA being a negative thing, I have seen people who absolutely devote all of their time to NA and neglect their families. This becomes a negative thing, but usually the reason for this is the person is trying to avoid dealing with whatever problems are at home.

And the zealots, undoubtedly the worst part of NA. These people can drive a new person right back out the door. They take over meetings and completely twist themaround. There are seriously some sick fucks in NA, and generally these are people who get clean, but never really do any work on themselves. So they remain just as sick as they were the day they walked in the door, self centered, self serving people.

And there are definitely some really bad meetings out there, I can attest to that. There are meetings tha I simply will not go to under any circumstance. That is the worst place for a person to end up on their first meeting, because they base their opinion of the whole fellowship on that one meeting. Some meetings engage heavily in christian dogma, which is expressly forbidden in the traditions. These meetings are called "renegade" meetings. Usually, if I meet someone who has experienced them I tell them they have not found the right meeting, and try to reccomend a good one.

I helped to start a really good meeting about five years ago, called "Lust for Life". It met on the third floor of a coffee shop downtown, and most of those who came were young artist and musician types - so it was a pretty progressive meeting and helped a lot of people. On the other hand you have meetings where people take over and try to turn it onto an extension of their church...... they don't get the fact that it is an all inclusive program, spiritual in nature, but never, ever religious.

So, like anything, a good thing can be ruined by peoples interpretations and applications. But i believe the program, as put forth in the twelve steps and twelve traditions, is pretty much perfect. Unfortunately certain people can really screw it up, and they do all the time. But this is the people, not the program. All of my resentments towards organized religion stem from peoples interpretation of the ideas, not the ideas themselves.

Anyway, our meeting died when the coffee shop owner brought in a new partner and they decided they wanted to put a wine bar on the third floor, and the NA meeting had to go. We were unable to find another location with the same atmosphere and the meeting ended up dying.

So yes, NA/AA are alternatives and not for everyone. Only the individual can decide that. For me it was the last resort and ended up being what worked, but only after about 5 years of fooling myself tht I could control my using.....

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Post by forge » Thu Feb 23, 2006 2:58 pm

smutek wrote:My take on it, I believe that if someone has the ability to control their drinking or drug use then they are not an alcoholic or an addict.
.....
so where does that leave everyone else? by that reasoning Conny is neither because he is doing fine by himself so far (and so IMO has proven he can do it if he wants/needs to) and so where does that leave this whole thread?

Do only the ones who need the help of an organisation have a problem?

Ultimately you did have the ability to control it in the end - NA/AA might have helped you on the path but it can only be you that solves it - really and we all have the ability to control it really, these organisations only guide

Isnt admitting you have a problem the first step? maybe that's enough for some people. It can certainly be one of if not the hardest bits

I may be just nit picking, but I just dont really think everyone who admits they have a problem really has to go cold turkey and completely abstain

maybe what I've been doing is trying to give fuel to my not admitting it and avoiding the inevitable - but really given how much I related to conny's description of the day of deception in order to drink, that has to be wrong - and I've seriously gone to some lengths to hide it, and spent MY LAST PENNY - which should have been the big giveaway

But it seems to be settling down now, I've gone from averaging or starting on a 6 pack a day down to a couple of home brews, and I enjoy it and that desperate feeling has mostly gone - and I have scared myself alot of times at how much it was becoming normal, but it really is now starting to feel like it's not so much a problem

so all I'm saying is it is possible for some people who have the potential or tendency to get out of control to steer back on course and control it themselves - it's really just down to identifying where you are in that and knowing at what point enough is enough

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