Ableton Forum

forge wrote:enough is enough

AA is not on my aganda for the moment.

But today is a bit tough, iterating thoughts about beer and warm red wine.
Thoughts about rewarding myself with a good old nice drunken feeling, floating around, writing silly poems, talking to other drunks about everything... Maybe doing a crazy Live tune with beer cans all over the table.

But instead I drink strong, tasty coffee.

And thinking about the day when it may be OK to have some "controlled" drinking makes me nervous. And as long it feels that way, it's probably best to stay away from it anyway.

This whole thing did kick a big issue about responsability into my life, as some posts have pointed out. Not only about drinking but about life, yourself and others.
And I have often had problems with responsibility, trying to avoid it.
Maybe this is a step to change that.

// C

Conny, hang in there. Don't drink today!! And remember, you don't have to do this by yourself.

forge wrote:so where does that leave everyone else? by that reasoning Conny is neither because he is doing fine by himself so far (and so IMO has proven he can do it if he wants/needs to) and so where does that leave this whole thread?

That leaves this thread exactly where it started. Conny is trying to stop drinking, you are trying to decide if you have a problem or not.

If you think you have a problem then try to stop drinking. If you can stop drinking when you want then there is no problem, not anymore. But remember, if you want to stop drinking, that means you can't start drinking again. That isn't stopping. Stopping is easy, the trick is "staying stopped".

Try to control your drinking, if you can control it then there is no problem. But in all of this you really need to be totally honest with yourself. How easy is it to fool yourself that you are controlling your drinking when you are not? If you are controlling your drinking then why do you keep expressing self doubt?

Is stopping for a week, then going back to the exact same habbits really control?

Only you can answer those questions.

If you think you have a problem with drinking, ask yourself why you think you have a problem.

forge wrote:Do only the ones who need the help of an organisation have a problem?

For some reason I am beginning to think that you are really, maybe intentionally, missing the point here.

If you can quit on your own, more power to you. If you can really control your drinking, more power to you. And if you can drink, smoke weed, whatever, responsibly and never have any problems then even more power to you. Have one for me.

But if you think there is a problem, have tried to control it or even stop but have not been able to, then there is an organization that can help. Thats all.

forge wrote:Ultimately you did have the ability to control it in the end - NA/AA might have helped you on the path but it can only be you that solves it - really and we all have the ability to control it really, these organisations only guide

Yes, exactly. NA did not do anything for me. They showed me how to do it, helped me, and gave me support.

Analogies are never without flaw, but for what its worth here are two.

If I have a heavy piece of furniture to move downstairs, yes - I can try to do it myself if I need to and possible throw my back out in the process. Or I can ask a friend to help me move it.

If I want to install new wiring in my house, I can try to do it myself, through trial and error, and possibly burn down the block in the process. Or, I can have my electrician friend, who has installed wiring before, come over and help me.

Thats the whole point of NA - A shitload of people who have gotten clean, and are staying clean, helping other people to do the same. Its really that simple.

When a new person is trying to kick a drug habbit, and feels they have absoultely no hope, and they walk into a room full of former junkies, criminals, and thieves, a who's who of the criminal/drug underworld if you will - all clean for a year, 10 years, 27 years, 15 years and living good productive lives with out drugs and alcohol - that is where the power of NA is. And thats where the hope is. Its a support group, ya know?

When I meet some kid with one day clean, who went to tons of parties, maybe he was a dj, but he got fucked up on drugs so much that he lost everything and turned to crime to support his habbit. I can tell him ya know, six and a half years ago I was homeless and all I had to my name was a bookbag full of clothes. 7 and a half years ago, right now I was in jail, and 8 and half years ago I was stealing everyday, breaking into houses, robbing people on the street and sticking up stores to support a drug habbit.

Then he see's that I have been clean for just six years, and comes to my house to see the nice furniture, tv, my studio, all of my computers, my gadgets, turntables, he meets my beautifull wife, and learns that I am a deans list, honor student at my college, that I am self employed and do artwork for a living. Maybe he see's all of that shit and says wow, there is hope! I relate to this guy, he did it, so can I.

Maybe I meet another person who never shot dope, never got into crime, never lost anything so he can't relate to me - but he meets this guy who all it took was to miss a couple mortgadge payments, or maybe he was afraid he was going to lose his business, so he got clean and has been clean for thirty years and is a thriving, successfull business owner.

I know all types of people, my crew and I were for the most part bottom of the barrell junkies, converts from the criminal underworld..... but I know a lady who's problem started when, to quote, "my maid was stealing medication from my safe, i realized I needed help", I know a doctor who was stealing some wierd anesthectic from the hospital where he worked, and I know people that all they did was drank and smoked a little pot, but for whatever reason they felt they did not have controll over it, and they are all clean in NA.

The point is, there is always someone there you can relate to. Find them.

And you don't have to go for your whole life, the reason I am still involved is because I feel I owe it to be there to help new people that may relate to me. I may save someones life.

The only difference is that NA is all inclusive and considers alcohol to be a drug, AA deals only with alocohol problems.

So its there, take it or leave it. End of story. If you don't think it is for you don't try it.

But, and this is for you and conny, if you do decide to try AA or NA, find a meeting with people you can relate to. They are out there. If you go to a meeeting and don't like it get a meeting schedule and go to a different one next time. Ask someone where other good meetings are.

I'm not saying you have to go to NA or AA, just that they are there, they are excellent support groups, and they work.

I really have to stop writing in this thread, I am supposed to be working!!!!!!

I admit, I am powerless over the "help me to stop drinking thread", that my day has become unmanageable.....

conny wrote:But today is a bit tough, iterating thoughts about beer and warm red wine.
Thoughts about rewarding myself with a good old nice drunken feeling, floating around, writing silly poems, talking to other drunks about everything... Maybe doing a crazy Live tune with beer cans all over the table.

Conny, different people have different experiences with this. Some people experience these thoughts, "cravings", for a long time after quitting. The important thing is not to drink and eventually they will have less power and finally they will just go away.

For other people they go away eventually but come back again every so often. The key is, don't drink - no matter what.

For me, once I really made my mind up to stop I never had a craving since. Not one time in the six years, three months and three days that I have been clean have I had a desire to get drunk or stoned.

Everyone is different.

In all cases the answer is, don't give in, don't drink - no matter what.

smutek wrote: I really have to stop writing in this thread
.....

The last 3 traditions - that is if you consider yourself a memebr of aa

when actually I was going to ask you to join my new self help group

HA

Ho's Anonymous - to help pimps pimp harder. Break more ho's and increase they revenues...learn how to establish a track in yo own city. How to set up websites as escort services like my favorite www.eros-seattle.com
and basically how to pimp in the 21st century cause thangs done changed for a pimp wit this internet and cell phones.

but the last 3 traditions

10. Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into controversy.

11. Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion; we need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio, and films.

12. Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our Traditions, ever reminding us to place principles before personalities.

Thursday, thirsty day...

I have not withdrawn from meeting my friend at the pub tonight.
Mentally I see myself ordering cranberry juice.

// C

conny wrote:Thursday, thirsty day...

I have not withdrawn from meeting my friend at the pub tonight.
Mentally I see myself ordering cranberry juice.

// C

Hey Conny, I haven't yet participated with my encouragements... but here I am bro ! Mental exercises are good to straight up your will, hehe.
Drink juice tonight and I'll walk along with another dependency (fags), right ?

All support and warm thoughts, or cold ones if you need

How much money do you figure you've not spent on booze? Enough to buy Operator?

One thing I've heard that can help people stop is watching a video of themselves when they're acting drunk and obnoxious. Maybe you can get the wife to catch you sometime, should that ever happen again.

Good luck tonight, think of your kids when you get the urge, it's their life too and having a sober dad is a far better childhood than dealing with a drunk dad.

DeadlyKungFu wrote:having a sober dad is a far better childhood than dealing with a drunk dad.

Yeah, I don't want them to have the father I had (when he was drunk)

DeadlyKungFu wrote:How much money do you figure you've not spent on booze? Enough to buy Operator?

I'll got it. Is it funky to buy another..!
Saving for Live 6.

amo wrote:All support and warm thoughts, or cold ones if you need

You are always welcome, for whatever reason, warm, cold, smokey and in every condition.



Cranberry juice, ice and lime (flash makes it a lemon slice).
Safely home again.

// C

conny wrote: You are always welcome, for whatever reason, warm, cold, smokey and in every condition.



Cranberry juice, ice and lime (flash makes it a lemon slice).
Safely home again.

// C

Yeah ! n I'm home safely smokeless ! See ? It works !

euhhh... by the way, Im a Live user

good work conny!

Smutek - you're right, and props for giving back and showing others...

I think the reason I've hijacked this thread so much is because right now this has been a big issue for me and I have thought about posting a similar thread myself - couldnt think of a better forum full of people to discuss this with

while on the surface the thing I was arguing with was the total abstinence vs controlled using thing, I can totally see how alot of that can be the denial and wanting to avoid the topic at hand because frankly, even now that I seem to have got the amount down, when actually reading all these posts and picturing myself completely without I get this mad anxious feeling like I dont know what I'd do, I definitely want to give up weed because I worry about the lungs (especially with asthma) but for some reason am convinced I cant write music without it, but even though I havent finished a tune in probably a couple of years now - loads of good ideas and starts but hardly any finished

then mix of smoking + the Beer gives me hellish heartburn every day (I was reading something in the doctors about how that can lead to big problems too), plus it makes you fat and I need to lose weight - possibly responsible for the disc protrusion I now have in my lower back -

yet this far after quite a few years like this, I still keep telling myself the same things "but I love beer, it relaxes me, love the taste"....yeah except the mad heartburn and clogged sinuses (probably alergic to it actually) and total wipeout tiredness it gives me!

and weed "but I need weed to be creative " - how crap is that? The more I write the more this sounds like bullshit. I think about these things EVERY SINGLE DAY.

it definitely doesnt sound like control does it?

It's like I started arguing the point here because if I convinced you lot then I must be right.

Conny I might have to join you, It's 7.30am I've been up 2 hours, nice morning, feels fresh, clear head - woken up by a mad mental puppy who chews everything in sight and turns into a complete lunatic in the morning, so that has an influence on your energy!

only had one pint and one cone last night so maybe tonight is the night!

forge wrote:so maybe tonight is the night!

Actually, forge my distant friend, I was thinking about writing a PM or posting here that your urgent writing and defence and arguing is good and gives a feeling that you are exploring some possibilities - second hand, going first hand maybe - about yourself. A very sincere and human approach IMO.
In my mind you are a person that can't stay out of honesty very long.
So you will find out what's best for you.

Now, if you have some fear for your health, that's a start (but don't let it make you paranoid - I know that side of it...)
You are engaged and present with humour and skills and I have no doubt that you'll figure your way out.

[Is this getting too romantic?]

// C

forge wrote: I definitely want to give up weed because I worry about the lungs (especially with asthma)

Every try a vaporisor? MUCH easier on the lungs and more potent too, they run about $200, I'd post a link but I'm at work and shouldn't browse to those sites here.

forge wrote:for some reason am convinced I cant write music without it, but even though I havent finished a tune in probably a couple of years now - loads of good ideas and starts but hardly any finished

After that damn "Do you smoke and record" thread a few months ago my drunken production mojo totally left me. I'm in the same boat about finishing songs (I never do) and I feel I can attribute A LOT of that to being too wasted to get a mix tight, or worse I touch a well done mix when I'm wasted and totally screw it up. I saw that happen recently, I was sober and rolled out some great loops. Later I tied one on and got all these 'great' ideas and rearranged everything. The mix just went to shit, I had to start over.

I smoke and drink when I just want to have fun, but when I know I have to/want to make some REAL progress, I mix stone cold sober.

forge wrote:then mix of smoking + the Beer gives me hellish heartburn every day

Vodka has the lowest potential for hangovers, as does moderation.

I'm glad we're all getting along here

I believe the best producers of dance music and other forms except hip-hop the majority of them don't use (at least while in the studio)

I just can't for the life of me write a beat high (on anything)

I can dj on E, blind-folded with my hands behind my back (did it once, just kidding but not really)

making music, quality banging music I like, high? - fuggitaboutit

I found the problem with weed is - after I smoke I want music, I crave music - I usually mix records but I'm so over that I just want to write beats

then I sit down and waste my computers time

You just have to stop smoking, period. It's actually easier than you think...pot doesn't have that psychological hook coke and alcohol do (in my experience) When I think about pot I don'thave to take a sh*t - I think about a line a coke and I'm making a bee-line for the bogs

Now when I'm out and about clubbing and I have a few drinks the only thing I found to cure that urge (for blow) is pot...you smoke some chronic and the LAST thing you want to do is a line of coke...weird

So I prefer to smoke when I'm away from my computer, alcohol does nothing for me except get me into trouble and coke is what it is - the devils dandruff

good luck, I'm on hold with M-audio trying to figure out what's wrong with my Fast Track Pro "Error: Device attached is not functioning properly"

good bye

forge, or should i say craig

i've met you, hung out with you, got drunk with you and had tea with you..

all i can say and i mean this in the most mate-like way possible is that i think you personally could benefit from letting go of the booze.

the whole time we were in berlin you just wanted us to find another bar, another pub, another beer.. i was worried then and there.. we had some brief conversations about it, and i still think you do have issues resisting beer.

ive given up weed for the most part, i have the odd couple of joints now and again but i dont punch cones all day no more, since then my life has picked up and taken a positive slant, so much so that i do not wish to let go of those positive things.

music... i was in the same boat as you.. no complete music for a couple of years. .. maybe 2 or 3, but since ive given up weed the muse has come back to me... i've achieved things which were but only a faint hope. .. i had expressed the desire to play out in public for so many years and one sober moment on new years eve i decided that's what i wanted to do, and less than 2 months into the year i've managed to play to 300-400 absolute nutters... achievements.

right now i want a joint so bad because i want to not be productive today, and want to be silly and just do crazy shit like conny described, but i know that today is the single day where if i can abstain from weed then i will be a-ok.

i have a problem and so do you, not because i have a problem but because i've seen your reaction to beer and it reminds me of my own reactions to other substances

edit:

creativity is not getting high and amusing yourself. creativity is being completely sober and writing complex arrangements and melodies.

"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem!"
Perfect .sig for the thread!