Ableton Forum

smutek wrote:

DeadlyKungFu wrote:isn't AA a faith based program?

Yes and no.

I like the Flying Spaghetti Monster myself
http://www.venganza.org/

I'd heard things along those lines but I didn't know how it really went down, it's great to have you back .

DeadlyKungFu wrote:

smutek wrote:

DeadlyKungFu wrote:isn't AA a faith based program?

Yes and no.

I like the Flying Spaghetti Monster myself
http://www.venganza.org/

I'd heard things along those lines but I didn't know how it really went down, it's great to have you back .

I was going to mention that!

................

Guys, really sorry if I spoke in a rude way about the AA - I did use slightly harsh words and I really dont deny it works for people nor mean to seem down on anyone who's used them

what it was was my cousin showed me their book, partly because I have mentioned to her a few times I think I may need to think about it, she used to try to convince me to go from a child because my father was an alcoholic who was forced to go into rehab for having an accident while drink driving 6 times over the legal limit with his 8 year old (me) in the car, and he stopped and never drank again - he got into weed later on and was like a proper addict about that but suffered badly with arthritis and said it helped alot so that was kind of allowed, although he used to really freak me out when he wanted me to get it for him because he was so like a junkie for it

All I was really saying about the AA is based on the little bit i read in my cousin's book she showed me and it all seemed to be saying how you had to accept you are hopeless and I just really didnt like that idea at all. I just felt it might be more helpful to encourage people to be empowered and feel that they are STRONGER than it and not hopeless.

I certainly wasnt disagreeing that it might be necessary to get outside help, but there are others besides the AA too.

I have been thinking alot about whether I have a problem. For me the difficulty comes in the fact that I actually really like beer. It's like one of my great life pleasures. I brew my own, I love different types and really enjoy brewing it and drinking it.

So the question is why do I need to worry about it? Is it going to cause me problems? I know you're supposed to drink in moderation but I have a strong constitution and it seems to take more of it to affect me - so does that mean I'm just used to it and am drinking too much or does it mean my body can handle it and there's no problem?

I actually went to the doctor about 6 months ago to get a blood test to see if I'd done any damage and he said the tests were all fine and said it didnt suggest I'd been drinking as much as I said I had which surprised me as I had been honest with him about it.

So where is the problem? Beer is fattening and and I'm overweight which I'd rather not be, but maybe that means I should just be excercising more.

I dont know - would I not care about it if I wasnt paranoid because of my dad, or do I have a problem I need to address? I dont know.

There is a book at the Juicemaster.com called Stop Drinking 4 Life Easily which may be worth getting. It will show you that giving up drinking needn't be difficult but enjoyable and that you will be far happier without it.

Did you need to drink to enjoy and cope with life when you were a child? Of course not.

Alcohol will only ever make your problems worse.

Give youself the chance of true freedom and the life you really deserve.

Good luck

zfigz wrote: I smoke pot regularly and for the most pot I'm pretty damn productive, but then again I am a university student, so I just right the odd paper and then the rest of the time is mine.

You remind so much of me 10 years ago, I almost laughed out loud. Man, I LOVED smoking pot. I mean I LOVED IT!!

A few take-aways for me from this entire discussion:

- Drugs and alcohol have different effects on different people. I try not to judge anyone, though I fail in that regard sometimes. Not everyone has a problem with drinking, or pot, or cocaine, or whatever. But some of us do, and that's just how the cards are dealt.

- No one can really understand what goes on in an AA, NA, MA (Marijuana Anonymous - where I finally got sober, although I had many other addictions) until he/she actually experiences it. Those programs do not work for everyone. There are other solutions out there that may work better for an individual. But the AA-based programs do work for many people.

- The BEST decision I ever made in my life, and the most difficult achievement in my life, was getting sober. Getting married, owning a house, getting into one of the best MBA programs in the world (and kicking ass), even trying to be the best new father I can be, ALL would have been impossible living the way I used to live.

I'm 8 years sober, and my life has hope.

Jim S.

12 step programs, you just have to go for yourself
an hour to an hour and a half out of your normal schedule wont kill you

but the essential question can only be answered by you

do you want to quit? Do you really truely want ot quit?

of course everyone wants to quit the day after they wake up somewhere weird with someone weird - broke

but if you really want to you'll do what ever it takes not to -

good luck - probably the hardest but most rewarding thing you can do for yourself and the people around you


later



a

Hi all -

Normally, jumping in here would automatically make me grab for a fresh beer, even if the previuos one was not finished.

To be short:

I don't exclude AA for myself but I will start this yourney without it.
It is there, it scares me a bit but at least now I'm convinced that when it goes out of hand, I will go there.
I have friends that seemed out of rescue but who are now alright after some years with AA.

37 days ago, I had two days in a row when I did not drink, according to my diary.
This is the second sober day in this new period.
So tomorrow will render me a record for the last month...

I'm feeling funny and quite fine. Had to activate myself not to go nuts, went to the swimming hall, cleaned the floor in the apartement etc, long walks.

I think it's getting dangerous soon, not to reward myself with "a beer or two".
The current goal is to make it for a week.

And I'm constantly thinking about if I must or want to skip alcohol totally or if it's still possible to force me free from the daily, destructive drinking and keep the door open for the social pleasures of meeting friends over a beer at the pub.

A sign of how deep these thought are grabbing: This night I hade like four five dreams where bottles and glasses played major roles!

I am a man composed of habits.
For some weeks lately, after the late morning coffee, I poured up a glass of red and sat down here to check the mail.
Honestly: Most postings from me and most music posted have been made in an non-so-sober state.
The Live 5 beta testing became late nights with beer cans etc.

I'm working with a change of habits.
That's too shallow, though.
As have been talked about here, the issue goes to why you drink, the underlying purpose.
I guess for me this overlaps with the reasons why I got my panic syndrom disorder a year ago - the vulnerability for it all.

And guys, I read every word and I will keep this conversation for times to come.

// C

Just remember Conny, You're never a loser in this journey. Sometimes we don't walk the path that we intend to but as long as we know there is a path for us and that we have intentions growth is inevitable. Not meeting our own expectations stings sharply but makes the the accomplishment so much more satisfying. Keep your hands and body busy and when you want a drink ask yourself what you really want.

conny wrote: I think it's getting dangerous soon, not to reward myself with "a beer or two".

Take the money you would've spent on alcohol and buy a piece of gear and only ever use that piece of gear sober, no matter what happens in the future.

Drinking during the daytime is a sure sign of a problem, but to keep things in perspective a beer or two a night isn't a problem too either.

I've probably had at least a couple of beers most nights for the last 8 years but I work out a lot, I work long hours at work and I'm very productive socially. It's all about perspective and moderation.

hi Conny,

I'm sure you'll sort your problem, remember what we talked about when we met in here in zurich? Travelling and seeing other ppl/places could be a solution too.
you are always welcome in zurich!

I'm with you in this particular moment, I'm sure you'll find the force to overcome it.

all the best,
fabio

marky wrote:Drinking during the daytime is a sure sign of a problem,....

nah that's one of those myths like drinking alone means you're an alchy

tell that to the French! So a glass of wine or beer at lunch is out now?

Conny, no one's yet asked

what is it that makes you feel like it's a problem? Is it the amount you're drinking? Are you getting smashed every day or is it just a couple? Is it interfering with your life? If so How? You did say it ruins you in many ways, but I guess I'm just wondering how - as in is the drinking really the cause, or is it a symptom? I'm sure there is drinking for drinkings sake for many people out there, but I also feel there are people for whom it is a symptom and they are doing it in response to circumstances and things in your life that you aren't happy with and if they were to be sorted out maybe the desire to drink would go with it

as I said in my long post I'm really not sure if it's a problem or not for me, I do seem to drink alot, but when I get that gnawing feeling that I need a drink usually it is in a moment of high tension or stress and it is a way of calming myself. In that sense I feel like the solution is to learn different methods of coping with the stress

Because if this is true and it is a symptom then stopping drinking in a staunch disciplinary way may only lead on to different coping mechanisms which may be problematic in themselves.

what do you think? I'm interested to know for my own sake too.

forge, my man... some hard to answer questions!

First, from what I've seen and heard from you, I would not assume you have a problem. But also, most people who have seen me, even quite close, I don't think they would say I have a problem. But again, if they followed me around the clock at home, they would know.

What a person following me might see:
Several days in a row - rising late, having a banana and a cup of coffee, reading the paper, getting nervous over job and money etc, pouring a glas of wine to check the mail, finding something interesting, another glass. Then something to do in town, walking, the library, checking the clock, when it's 3 PM there is cheep beer in a filthy bar, OK an art exhibition to get the time right, then bar, reading a criminal novel, two bottles, trying to write some notes in the diary, more beer, and some more. Now time to buy something to eat when children comes home. Done. But on the way home there is this other bar, I don't have to order, they know what beer I like, one, two... Home, dinner, a glass of red at the stove. Then tired, reading in bed, fall asleep
The telephone rings, oh have to have some beer in the hand when answering etc. Like smoking, when I did.

Now, one of the factors making it a problem is also the mere cost. I did some calculus and the amount of money it takes for a month is astonishing! No mystery why I don't have anything left.

This behaviour started when I began working away from the family, the one beer on evenings thing - which was OK and fine. Then having something back in the fridge to, then starting to have something before journeys, on the journey etc. And finally, quitting the job, I could expand this trend.

My drinking habits does not make my state obviuous like when people drink themselves unconsciuos. I never do that, I even don't like to be real drunk. So it's more like a "medication" I guess, keeping things behind a curtain. You noticed I did not follow when thre more crazy part of the night started in Berlin, for instance. On the other hand I had some sips on my own before going to the saturday discussions.

Well, some bad signs:
Kids hear the snap of opening beer cans and say I should not have beer all the time. I start opening while making some other noise instead. Or takes wine instead, more silent drinking...
I say: We need some milk and basicly that's just because I feel the urge to take a trip to the pub before something - before my brother comes, my ex comes, that or that is supposed to happen etc.

So, as you said, there is symtoms going on here, and other things may replace the drinking. Now, instead of spending the afternoon in the filthy pub, I have managed to take a swim and have a tea instead at a café. Just for a start. Other nerve calmers.

Love, Live & Peace

// C

Jim S. said:

You remind so much of me 10 years ago, I almost laughed out loud. Man, I LOVED smoking pot. I mean I LOVED IT!!

hehe, well I did write that pretty late as I was writing a track until 6am, that's the reason for my spelling mistakes. I'm a history student, sooo yeah, I really rely on word processing, though for bulletin like these i just say meh.......

As for pot, good for you that you've been sober that long. I take breaks from my doja, but I'm also relatively active and eat healthy. I've also got a good head on my shoulders and don't need to over lubricate myself in social surroundings or by myself. I really find marijuana helps me focus, hell, I study smoking pot and I make As and Bs. Though, I'm pretty hyper when I'm not stoned, so maybe pot is just my adderall fix or whatever.

peace out brothas 'n' sistas

forge wrote: Because if this is true and it is a symptom then stopping drinking in a staunch disciplinary way may only lead on to different coping mechanisms which may be problematic in themselves.

True if you're not an alcoholic by DNA so to speak, I guess.
And it may still be a good thing to switch from a more desctuctive to a less so mechanism. And by that one's situation may become more clear.
But right, the underlaying patterns of reactions, automatic thoughts and feelings are the most important to work with.

A therapist said lately that for me, I shall not go by feelings, I shall go by thought. Like "I feel for a beer" - "Do I? Why? Can I do something else instead? What do I want?"

// C