did ableton crack there own software?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
suspended childhood
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Post by suspended childhood » Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:18 am

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Last edited by suspended childhood on Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

njh
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Post by njh » Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:22 am

suspended childhood wrote:ok you want a bitch session...with my no money ass....ive travelled to 48 countires, and 4 continents...even yours...and i stay in 5 star hotels....with no money right?

the point is this...

if you (collective) do work, whether you can touch it or not, you deserve to get paid for it.

if you dont agree with that, than im sure your boss wont mind giving you a pay decrease, or pay elimination.


i would love to contact the 1% of 500,000 and put them to work, i have over 500 acres that need to be mowed, horses that need to be cared for, vehicles that need to be maintained, painting that needs to be done, fences that need to be fixed, businesses that need paperwork done, accounting that needs to be done, and at the end of the day, ill be so happy that i didnt have to pay these people, im gonna tell all my friends about it, and they can go work for them too, and not get paid.


it is black and white.

if you work, you should get paid.

since i dont have any money and never will...come work for me, so i dont have to pay you, and you wont mind.
nonsence :roll:
you seem to be more happy bragging about what you own than seeing a point here.

suspended childhood
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Post by suspended childhood » Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:30 am

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Last edited by suspended childhood on Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

unusable
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Post by unusable » Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:31 am

MrYellow wrote:u know what..... back to the subject....

Don't bother replying.... It's obvious you're not a person that understands
money and are doomed to always have none.... So I'm pretty bored with
trying to explain it to you.

-Ben
so it's better to have 100% of the 1 gram pie.....right!?!






.:end sarcasim:.
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unusable
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Post by unusable » Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:42 am

njh wrote:wow i was sure i would get flamed for posting this, im glad to see alot of people have the same view on using cracks as myself. i have also used plenty of cracks to fully demo a software, most of wich i find i dont need or are a gimmick (like guitar rig). once i find something i like (when i do get the money) i buy it. the truth is though i very rarely have disposable cash to spend on software, wich makes me wonder how makers of music apps charge $399.00 on average for there software, when game develpoers charge $50.00 on average. i have heard the arguement that more people buy games but, i feel if software like ableton or (more so ) reason was at a working mans rate (say $150.00) than more people would be buying this software. here is something i dont think developers of music software take in consideration when jacking prices up and should think about before claiming there product is an all in one music app: 1. besides paying a rediculous price for software i have to buy a pc that is able to run the software (lets be honest a decent laptop cost $799.00 on up) then i must buy a sound card ( the cheapest firewire is around $199.00) after that i need to buy some sort of midi controller to make any use of the real time features of the software (decent controllers are $199.00 on up). after purchasing all this plus the software i am now in close to $2,000 (at the lowest end).
i am not saying ableton live or reason isnt worth paying for im just saying that the marketing team really should think, are we going to sell this software at a fair price for everyone or are we going to jack up the price so high that most people will only ever use a crack of it.
fair price eh?? you obviously have no idea regarding the allocation of resources (financial or otherwise) available to a large software developer compared with a small one.

I do understand what you're saying though, what makes something cost as much as it does? It's hard to say without the numbers, but a gaming user base in the millions dosen't really compare with live's user base (disclamer - just guessing and making assumptions about the numbers) :wink:
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mike holiday
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Post by mike holiday » Tue Feb 28, 2006 3:52 am

njh wrote: (lets be honest a decent laptop cost $799.00 on up) then i must buy a sound card ( the cheapest firewire is around $199.00) after that i need to buy some sort of midi controller to make any use of the real time features of the software (decent controllers are $199.00 on up). after purchasing all this plus the software i am now in close to $2,000 (at the lowest end).
i am not saying ableton live or reason isnt worth paying for im just saying that the marketing team really should think, are we going to sell this software at a fair price for everyone or are we going to jack up the price so high that most people will only ever use a crack of it.

i'd be willing to bet that one of these pieces of gear would come with a "lite" version of live that you could upgrade at a discount!!!

BUT i'v had some cracked software get passed to me in my time, the ones i like i bought the ones i didn't i deleted.. it's nice to see what you get and how it works on you system.
dual 1.8 G4 10.4.9 w/768 ram & A&H xone 3D


"I ain't often right but I've never been wrong"

MrYellow
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Post by MrYellow » Tue Feb 28, 2006 4:08 am

suspended childhood.... tell me which you would prefer.....

100% of 500x$250
100% of 50,000x$250 - $5million in marketing.
20% of 50,000x$250 - $1million in marketing.

Here's the math to save u time....

125k
7.5m
11.5m

Which one?
Simple question....

Word of mouth is the best form of marketing you can get/buy.

So easy to pay for it with non-tangible downloads that cost you nothing in
cashflow then buy less effective broadcast/magazine marketing that you
have to pay for each month. More users, more talk, more money. Who
cares if Johny is using it for free, as long as he tells 5 friends and maybe
even buys it himself in future.

-Ben

womoma
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Post by womoma » Tue Feb 28, 2006 5:54 am

It's the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard
how naive of you.
all live lite users can upgrade to live 5 for 199 eur/usd. before march 6.
sh1t- what if i wait till after march 6 - do i end up having to pay more??
I really need to get some cash together soon. I want my Live 5, boxed and delivered.. and one of those kool huddys.
all i know is that a demo that doesn't let you save your progress is completely useless in my books.
I think save disable is a pretty good "demo" mode. Better than white noise every 30 seconds!
I guess save disabled is the lesser of the 2 evils :lol:
I dont install demo software anymore. The worst has to be "ding dong, thank you, for, trying, microtonic"
did ableton crack there own software?
I think they probably did release that "cracked" version. One could argue that it is avtually very giving of them aswell as being genius marketing. Im hooked, and Im gonna pay for Live 5.
I think Ableton are a nice company in most respects, especially compared to some of their contemporaries.
So, in my opinion, everyones a winner.

Im dying to check out Live 6. Wheres the rumours at? Im really lookin forward to some gossip and speculation.

suspended childhood
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Post by suspended childhood » Tue Feb 28, 2006 6:00 am

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Last edited by suspended childhood on Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MrYellow
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Post by MrYellow » Tue Feb 28, 2006 6:49 am

oh my u are a new kind of stupid. You say you got the point but have still
completely missed it. Everything is so black and white.

So here mr-black&white.... Which would u prefer, $7.5m or $11.5m?

Easier question..... Which would u prefer $5 or $10?

Still too hard?

Where did I say it's ok as long as a company makes millions.....

I said that companies like to make more.... Everyone likes to make
more.... Marketing helps u make more..... Clever marketing is cheaper.

Also you notice I'm talking about "fade" which is like an extended demo,
no different to a feature limited demo really, just smarter.

oh and how exactly does a company making more off cheaper marketing
make you have to pay more for a product?

I'm yet to see you say anything that even remotely resembles "sense".

-Ben

forgie
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Post by forgie » Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:33 am

Hmmm. Many different issues, many ranting opinions. I haven't read half the thread. I thought I'd add my 2c to the mix anyway.

I have no problem in ripping software from certain companies. Companies like Microsoft, Macromedia, Adobe etc. These companies make billions. They will thrive and survive without my money. More to the point, these companies have become dominant by using "divide and conquer" tactics, which often doesn't benefit the users, but the companies instead. I therefore don't give a rats ass about them. I do, however, always pay for software if it's made by a small company or independent developer (unless it's freeware...).

I think that the marketing that went into Live 5 was.... premature for a product that wasn't mature. It's hard to say how much of the marketing was actively organised by Ableton and how much was just industry hype.

I think fade is a pretty good way of doing a demo/copy protection/whatever. I think that Live has one of the best implementations of non-intrusive licence control of pro audio software. I for one don't want to have a $1500 USB dongle on me at all times!

MrYellow
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Post by MrYellow » Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:35 am

Just a quick reminder..... We're talking about non-tangibles with a
negligible delivery cost. The internet has changed things a lot.

I think I might understand we're you're coming from if your an old
economy kind of guy. Those of us in the adult industry were laughing at
the fortune 500 and the dotcoms when they first discovered the net. They
had no idea how it worked, we were sitting there making bank with very low
cost high concept methods watching them throw millions away on stupid
strategies that were destine to fail. Years later everyone else caught on to how
stupid they were and the market crashed.... We went on making just as
much as always.

So if you don't come from an internet background with a good idea of just
how easy it is to make money giving away non-tangibles and limited time
trials/demos/cracks on the net then I apologise.... I know how hard it can
be for people that made their money elsewhere to switch to a new
paradigm.

edit:
I think that Live has one of the best implementations of non-intrusive
licence control of pro audio software.
amen... one of the smartest companies I've seen in a good while!
Everything from features, marketing, license control, license flexibility,
everything from top to bottom is very well thought out and planned.

-Ben

MrYellow
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Post by MrYellow » Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:44 am

Another good example of how this kind of thinking is changing the music
industry (not software).....

Coldcut and NiN are total morons for releasing full remix ready tracks all
cut into loops and ready to be *stolen* by kids who just love to *steal*
everything like the little ungrateful scum they are!

:-)

The world has already changed, more people are picking up on it.... Usually
the last to know are the big organisations that find it hard to turn around
quickly. However they will and you will live to see a lot of fully endorced free
music out there.

-Ben

atmofunk
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Post by atmofunk » Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:50 am

speaking of Adobe -- photoshop would not be what it is today if the cracks were not available for little kiddies to make their pWnt pictures

Photoshop is a prime example of the point Mr Yellow has been making. It is the most dominant image processing tool out there.. so much that it's practically it's own market, and has practically become a frickin VERB ("I photoshopped timmy today")..

Was this because Adobe had commercials on TV, because they ran glossy print ads, or because they had fancy ad banners on tons of websites? No.. people were able to download versions to use (illicitly), and these people would in turn casually mention to others : " yeah, I used photoshop to make that".

Photoshop has become the defacto standard and must-have tool for imaging simply because everyone is using it.

Adobe seems to be pretty fine with this, especially since every designer out there will demand they use it at whatever company they work for, and THAT'S where the money is -- corporate licencing.

Word of mouth... spreading your name... becoming a "household noun" -- that should be the goal. Personally i find such success more valuable than financial reward, but that's just me. Obviously it is a GREY AREA :)
http://mixlogistics.com | http://www.myspace.com/mixlogistics | Live 6.0.3 | Oxygen8v2 | Trigger Finger

wilxon
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Post by wilxon » Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:19 am

mada-x wrote:
atmofunk wrote:all i know is that a demo that doesn't let you save your progress is completely useless in my books.

disable rendering, disable up to X amount of tracks.. disable whatever, just don't disable SAVE or there's no way ANYONE can get into the damn program efficiently enough to make the decision to buy or not.

For me, a proper demonstration ("test drive" if you will) is being able to sit down and actually make something, not just "look under the hood". For this, i thank the crackers way back in the day (version 3) for making it possible for me to decide that Live was the software I wanted.

So yeah, there is a purpose for the underground.



This post is absolutely 100% on point. This is exactly why I had used a cracked version initially . I completed three songs in it and then I was hooked. Then I wnt out and bought it. Demos are useless.
I agree, providing that you decide if you like it or not. if you do then buy it and if you dnt then dont buy it.

The problem is the people who dont see the point in buying it because they have it cracked, and dont see that they need to.

this is a crime, i know a few people who write music, and make money from it running cracks.

companies like ableton need the money to move on and carry on making improvements.

people who use cracks to really test software before they buy is harmless, the company gets the money, people who carry on using it with out a licence are piracy criminals. GUILTY OF THEFT.

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