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Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:54 pm
by DeadlyKungFu
kennerb wrote:
smutek wrote:
DeadlyKungFu wrote: You mean that because you recorded, programed or otherwise made everything yourself it's not original, a process and doesn't make the music original.


Why is it the dumbest threads get the highest counts? You people are weird. :P

Yes. Thats what I mean. If the idea driving the music is not original then how original is the whole piece?

Just something for people to think about who are spouting off in kind of an elitist and snobby tone "your music is not original because you used a sample (no matter how long), but mine is original because I record farting dogs for my kicks and program all of the synth patches myself (but all of my output sounds like Boards of Canada or Aphex or Tortoise or Harmonica Phil Wiggins). So therefore I am somehow better than you."

I think its great when people program every element themselves and my hat goes off to them for their technical prowess but man, please don't kid yourself that it is some reason to consider yourself better than the next kid who conciously decides to use existing material to make his art and express himself.

Some of the attitudes in this thread seem to reflect an attitude that orginal= I am better (with original,in this case, meaning I program everything myself) but how original are you if you are writing yet another epic trance track, or drummy techno track, or dissonant "IDM" piece?

So again, its something for some people to think about and a message for them to get the hell down from their high horses and just do what moves them. Ofcourse people suck who lack any type of creative motivation and make a track in 5 minutes out of canned loops, but fuck it man, let them have their fun. If they lack the creative motivation they will eventually move on to something else anyway, if they are a shiester then it will eventually come out in the wash.

Everything we make is a result of what we have experienced and been influenced by. There are no original ideas.

As to your second question, I don't know.

And regarding your statement, I agree.


8)


Indeed! Well put Smutek.

I think the term "reinventing the wheel" was coined in reference to that kind of thinking.

I also think that as creatures of experience we need to understand the power of summoning up emotions or past experiences intentionally by using pre-existing sounds, samples, speeches, or note arrangements. Just think of all of the advertising out there that trys to sell us their crap by throwing images or songs at us. If it resonates with a memory or emotion we are more "connected" to it.

and yes this is a dumb post. :D
I concur on the occurrence of the concurrence.

...a big, huge, dumb thread




























that just gets bigger and bigger.






























































and bigger.

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:56 pm
by noisetonepause
and bigger and bigger.

until it collapses?

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:14 pm
by smutek
ps. thanks for quoting me in your sig paws, I'm honored.

8)

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:16 pm
by DKushner
To anyone who doesn't sample: Are you people crazy?! You're using Ableton Live, and you don't ever... throw down a loop or sequence a hit...? We all know that ableton has an extensive toolset designed for reinterpreting loops, so use it! Remix your asses off! Sample the GOD DAMNED WORLD.

Jungle was born of the massive sampling and speeding up of just one loop (AMEN). Eventually other loops became popular and original beats got programmed, but the Amen persists in its popularity today. Its a mark of pride for a lot of DnB artists. Many have a signature Amen mashing style or sound, and the best of the Amen programmers are also considered to be the best producers.

In underground hip hop circles the whole art is chopping up and resequencing breaks- to this day!

I think many of you through sheer pride are avoiding using one of abletons best features.

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:30 pm
by forge
RopeyPunter wrote:
noisetonepause wrote:Originality is boring and safe.
thats just plain wrong. using pre-recorded material is boring and safe.

meh...you must have been kidding, besides boring and safe are too subjective to come to any conclusion regarding this topic
you havent been round here long have you? Allow me to introduce you to Noisetonepause - the most tongue-in-cheek member of this board, who is also a BASTARD in the Berlin drum and bass club sense of the word.

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:40 pm
by noisetonepause
forge wrote:
RopeyPunter wrote:
noisetonepause wrote:Originality is boring and safe.
thats just plain wrong. using pre-recorded material is boring and safe.

meh...you must have been kidding, besides boring and safe are too subjective to come to any conclusion regarding this topic
you havent been round here long have you? Allow me to introduce you to Noisetonepause - the most tongue-in-cheek member of this board, who is also a BASTARD in the Berlin drum and bass club sense of the word.
Actually, I'm not tongue in cheek. I'm just obnoxious. And the young man I sent to Berlin is actually my dad..

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:59 pm
by forge
noisetonepause wrote:
forge wrote:
RopeyPunter wrote: thats just plain wrong. using pre-recorded material is boring and safe.

meh...you must have been kidding, besides boring and safe are too subjective to come to any conclusion regarding this topic
you havent been round here long have you? Allow me to introduce you to Noisetonepause - the most tongue-in-cheek member of this board, who is also a BASTARD in the Berlin drum and bass club sense of the word.
Actually, I'm not tongue in cheek. I'm just obnoxious. And the young man I sent to Berlin is actually my dad..
:lol: :lol: :lol:

I knew it! imposter!

Actually I totally agree with you on this matter, I dont think anything is original and it's all a big ego trip to care.

So I am Orginal and a fart in all your faces you un-original scumbags because you are not original! I've seen it all before - I heard that loop on a sample CD! In fact I heard a guitar on another record that sounded like a Telecaster, so you'd better not be using one!

I dont think any of the best art/music in existance would be anything like as good without the influences and contempories of the artist

the Beatles were trying to sound like alot of different people when they started

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:22 am
by mercyplease
RopeyPunter wrote:
mercyplease wrote:
RopeyPunter wrote:
I think some of you are clinging onto some idea that admitting your work isnt 100% original is some kind of concession ....
.
Why are you so hung up on this point?
hi radeon, i was wondering when your subversion would make a re-appearance. Besides, I'm not hung up on this point...its merely a discussion, and when someone addresses me I'll usually respond


Relax young Jedi, you have been blessed with the knowledge now go forth in to Webbie Land and spread the word,

Tell Them Ropey

TELL THEM AS IT IS.



ps
IM Rootin an Tootin for ya all the way! he ha

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:31 am
by DKushner
Fuck the beatles.

I work in a music shop in the tech section. Every day, some asshole who is looking at hard disk recorders will come up to me and say "y'know, the beatles did Sgt. Pepper on a four track".

Yeah? Great. Why don't you go use a four track. Why don't you go base your whole studio on a 4 track portastudio. Thats the ticket! I bet that four track gets you real far man. I bet you make the next Sgt. Peppers and play next years superbowl.

I don't even know why I continue talking to these asshole, they're not there to buy anything or see some of the new technology, they're just there to make their anti technology statement like they're some clever fucking genius and get out of there. Have a great time man.

Because you know what? The beatles had something else. It wasn't just a 4 track. They had talent. They had the best producers with the best mic's and the best rooms and the best mixing desk available at the time. All operated by the most talented people. Imagine what Sgt. Peppers would have sounded like if they had an HD3 rig.


note to world: this rant happens automatically everytime I hear someone reference the beatles to justify a position. Please take no offense to it. I don't really hate the beatles and chances are you made a great point. But Im on a mission to try and diffuse my rant into every corner of the musical world until the message has reached everyone, thus preventing the 4 track loving assholes from coming into my department by letting them know not only that Ive heard that statement a million times already, but also how I feel about them in advance.

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:40 am
by DeadlyKungFu
Where do you work? I'd like to buy a 4-track. :P

I hope you feel better.

Just ask them if they know of any other bands that used a 4 track, I bet they balk and miss reciting the names of every fucking band that recorded an album before 1980 (or whenever).

<walks over to the guitar section to play 'Stariway' poorly on an expensive rig I have no intention of buying>

I don't know how anyone can stand working in music shops, discount aside.

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:51 am
by forge
DKushner wrote:Fuck the beatles.

I work in a music shop in the tech section. Every day, some asshole who is looking at hard disk recorders will come up to me and say "y'know, the beatles did Sgt. Pepper on a four track".

Yeah? Great. Why don't you go use a four track. Why don't you go base your whole studio on a 4 track portastudio. Thats the ticket! I bet that four track gets you real far man. I bet you make the next Sgt. Peppers and play next years superbowl.

I don't even know why I continue talking to these asshole, they're not there to buy anything or see some of the new technology, they're just there to make their anti technology statement like they're some clever fucking genius and get out of there. Have a great time man.

Because you know what? The beatles had something else. It wasn't just a 4 track. They had talent. They had the best producers with the best mic's and the best rooms and the best mixing desk available at the time. All operated by the most talented people. Imagine what Sgt. Peppers would have sounded like if they had an HD3 rig.


note to world: this rant happens automatically everytime I hear someone reference the beatles to justify a position. Please take no offense to it. I don't really hate the beatles and chances are you made a great point. But Im on a mission to try and diffuse my rant into every corner of the musical world until the message has reached everyone, thus preventing the 4 track loving assholes from coming into my department by letting them know not only that Ive heard that statement a million times already, but also how I feel about them in advance.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

no your rant made me really laugh because I totally understand that sentiment of everyone thinking they are being funny or poignant making the same comment - it reminds me of on the simpsons where they're all in a line filling out the entry form to win a car and each one of them says to the bikini clad model "do you come with the car" and every time she says "he he he, oh you!"

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:52 am
by DKushner
I love it. The real reason I'm there is to provided tech service and help large ticket customers put together full rigs including instalation (for which I charge a separate fee). I'm in constant touch with the regional reps and I like that. I stick in the Keys and recording section, so when it's slow I get to play around. I get to extensively check out new stuff right after it comes out ( and sometimes a little before). I really like sales.

The downside? I sometimes have to talk to some serious idiots, assholes, douchebags or scumbags. And if they buys something, then I have to help these morons make it work. You know the worst thing though? I give large demos of software about once a week, and often someone will see the demo, go home and grab a crack, and then not have any idea how to run it and call me up with all sorts of tech questions.

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:54 am
by DKushner
forge wrote:
DKushner wrote:Fuck the beatles.

I work in a music shop in the tech section. Every day, some asshole who is looking at hard disk recorders will come up to me and say "y'know, the beatles did Sgt. Pepper on a four track".

Yeah? Great. Why don't you go use a four track. Why don't you go base your whole studio on a 4 track portastudio. Thats the ticket! I bet that four track gets you real far man. I bet you make the next Sgt. Peppers and play next years superbowl.

I don't even know why I continue talking to these asshole, they're not there to buy anything or see some of the new technology, they're just there to make their anti technology statement like they're some clever fucking genius and get out of there. Have a great time man.

Because you know what? The beatles had something else. It wasn't just a 4 track. They had talent. They had the best producers with the best mic's and the best rooms and the best mixing desk available at the time. All operated by the most talented people. Imagine what Sgt. Peppers would have sounded like if they had an HD3 rig.


note to world: this rant happens automatically everytime I hear someone reference the beatles to justify a position. Please take no offense to it. I don't really hate the beatles and chances are you made a great point. But Im on a mission to try and diffuse my rant into every corner of the musical world until the message has reached everyone, thus preventing the 4 track loving assholes from coming into my department by letting them know not only that Ive heard that statement a million times already, but also how I feel about them in advance.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

no your rant made me really laugh because I totally understand that sentiment of everyone thinking they are being funny or poignant making the same comment - it reminds me of on the simpsons where they're all in a line filling out the entry form to win a car and each one of them says to the bikini clad model "do you come with the car" and every time she says "he he he, oh you!"
Its like that, only the customers are more douchebaggy, less sleazy.

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:55 am
by forge
DeadlyKungFu wrote:Where do you work? I'd like to buy a 4-track. :P

I hope you feel better.

Just ask them if they know of any other bands that used a 4 track, I bet they balk and miss reciting the names of every fucking band that recorded an album before 1980 (or whenever).

<walks over to the guitar section to play 'Stariway' poorly on an expensive rig I have no intention of buying>

I don't know how anyone can stand working in music shops, discount aside.
isnt it just like the music industry in general though? Every fucker in the world has an opinion on music and thinks they know something about it - you could spend 15 years working on just the snare sound in your song and finally unleash your masterpiece on to the plebs and some thick dickhead with a $200 fender squire + amp starter combo who knows sweet child o mine and paint it black will tell you the snare is to toppy.

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:11 am
by mercyplease
DKushner wrote:To anyone who doesn't sample: Are you people crazy?! You're using Ableton Live, and you don't ever... throw down a loop or sequence a hit...? We all know that ableton has an extensive toolset designed for reinterpreting loops, so use it! Remix your asses off! Sample the GOD DAMNED WORLD.
.
Your absaloutely right of course. I think everyone knows (I hope). Yeh but thers is one who doesnt, hes called the entertainment. :wink: