Fast Song-Hopping for Live-Gigs?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
avwebern
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Fast Song-Hopping for Live-Gigs?

Post by avwebern » Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:15 am

Hey!

Maybe someone of you guys can help me with
this problem...
I'm a passionate Live-User, only
thing i can't manage is:
I play several Live-Gigs,
a kind of tour, mostly every evening. overall i have
130 songs, mixed differently every evening.
Every Song is saved on its own. When i finished
one song how can i fastly load the other one,
without having to get the mouse, search the browser,
click, ebentually wait for "Do you want to save the changed
song", and wait for the other song to load??

Do you have an idea?
Cool would be to load the new song in the background
or to load new songs with midi-controllers. or even to
have a second slave-routed ableton running, but thats
impossible...

Please write,
thanx a lot!

W

djastroboy
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Post by djastroboy » Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:25 pm

Can you describe for your listeners what constitutes "a song"?

In general, switching from one Live Set to another on stage is not practical unless you have a stand-up comedian in your group that can entertain the audience in between songs.
Perhaps the audience will be amused to watch you sweat profusely from every pore as your new Live Set loads? :lol:

Seriously, how complex are these Live Sets?
Can you bounce most of it down to a nice set of wav files?

analoghell
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live live

Post by analoghell » Fri Mar 24, 2006 8:02 pm

I have the same problem.
Using live to play some backing tracks, but also playing various VSTi's and effects using MIDI keyboard.

It's not possible to store songs as scenes because they use different keyboard zones and transpositions and these aren't stored per-scene.

The only way I can get it to work is by loading a new "set" for each song. Which is a real mood killer on stage as we wait for the f*&ker to load.

It's seem live isn't really set up for keyboard players who play "live"!

Any body got any tips/ideas??

hambone1
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Post by hambone1 » Fri Mar 24, 2006 8:31 pm

For the songs that have the same VSTis, effects, etc, put them in the same tracks. For tracks that use a different set of VSTis, etc, just make new tracks for them in the same set. You can route the audio output to your soundcard from as many tracks as you like.

It may make for a big set, but you'll only have to load it once.

analoghell
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Post by analoghell » Fri Mar 24, 2006 9:23 pm

hambone1 wrote:For the songs that have the same VSTis, effects, etc, put them in the same tracks. For tracks that use a different set of VSTis, etc, just make new tracks for them in the same set. You can route the audio output to your soundcard from as many tracks as you like.

It may make for a big set, but you'll only have to load it once.
Hi, Thanks. I thought of this already. Every track (about 25 of them) has different splits, patches and layers. So it doesn't really work. I'd end up with 100's of tracks!

rbmonosylabik
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Post by rbmonosylabik » Fri Mar 24, 2006 10:09 pm

I think I'll be running into the same issue soon, so I've opted to play acoustic bluegrass between each song.

Pitch Black
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Post by Pitch Black » Sat Mar 25, 2006 12:04 am

How much do you need to actually manipulate "live" in each song?

Would it be possible to make say, 8 submix tracks for each song - the things you are actually going to change/alter on stage, and combine these simplified songs into one large set for performing.

I resisted the mega-set idea for a long time for the same reasons as you (lots of tracks/many variations in channel structure etc), but having bit the bullet and done it, I find it works really well for me. I don't have to think about loading, all my songs are ready to go at the touch of a MIDI note. I really appreciate the clear headspace when I'm performing.

I appreciate it can take a while to build a mega-set (although it's SOOOO much faster in Live 5) but done once, and its done forever.

just my 2c, YMMV :)
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kennerb
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Post by kennerb » Sat Mar 25, 2006 1:17 am

Pitch Black wrote:How much do you need to actually manipulate "live" in each song?

Would it be possible to make say, 8 submix tracks for each song - the things you are actually going to change/alter on stage, and combine these simplified songs into one large set for performing.

I resisted the mega-set idea for a long time for the same reasons as you (lots of tracks/many variations in channel structure etc), but having bit the bullet and done it, I find it works really well for me. I don't have to think about loading, all my songs are ready to go at the touch of a MIDI note. I really appreciate the clear headspace when I'm performing.

I appreciate it can take a while to build a mega-set (although it's SOOOO much faster in Live 5) but done once, and its done forever.

just my 2c, YMMV :)
You work it seemlessly Live! I am now putting together my songs in a mega set. Didn't you have a link to one of your sites or blogs that actually show your workflow. My memory is poor but I thought you had posted about it before. I can't seem to find it in a forum search.

PS hope the honeymoon was great :wink:
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SongCarver
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Post by SongCarver » Sat Mar 25, 2006 1:24 am

i pray that ableton is working on a solution - the megaset is not sustainable. really, I've tried - and it limits your songs to similar approaches within live.

aegis
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Post by aegis » Sat Mar 25, 2006 3:28 pm

I too think that some form of on the fly sample replacement feature would be great - like, being able to define a grid - say 8down and 6across (my setup for live use) and then map a hotkey that would replace the contents of that grid with a "Live Group" - basically a on the fly reassignment of the grid to a new set of 56 samples, either from the chooser or just in a sequence(group1, 2, 3, etc).

Any samples that were playing when you activated the sample replace feature would be moved into a new scene, one row below the defined grid and occupying the same track. They would would continue playing, and you could then move into a new set of samples to keep the groove moving on the floor.

This would frankly allow me to totally eliminate all other DJ solutions. As it is, my solution is to mix in a song in traktor, fade out and stop Ableton, load a new set, and then mix out of the Traktor track. Not ideal, certainly, as I hate task switching like that during a set.

eisnein
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Post by eisnein » Sat Mar 25, 2006 3:35 pm

consolidate your sets- are you changing parameters on alll of these tracks?

i would agree with a mega set with simplified versions of these tunes. have faith in your audience and give them the benefit of the doubt but what is worth your stress in terms of what they will actually be able to follow?

maybe use one of the midi/keystroke converters to open sets then?
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sans soleil
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Post by sans soleil » Sat Mar 25, 2006 4:24 pm

ya...i've had the same problem and used one of two solutions...one is, as most people have mentioned, to consolidate everything into a 'megaset'...not so difficult, really, though it requires a fair bit of prep and adjustment...the other option is to trigger something in between 'songs', usually a sample or an intersticial track on the mpc or something that plays while the new set is loading...this works pretty well especially if it's a fairly ambient sound...maybe not what you want if you're trying to keep up the energy, though.

it would be nice to be able to select a 2nd track in the background, then have it ready to go immediately...the mpc does this, though i think it's a fair bit more complicated and memory-intensive in software.

eisnein
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Post by eisnein » Sat Mar 25, 2006 4:50 pm

people also used to suggest popping iTunes or quicktiime up and running a tune with that....til the set loads......
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analoghell
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Post by analoghell » Sat Mar 25, 2006 9:02 pm

i think maybe some of you are missing the point. or at least my point.
i'm the keyboard player in a band.
i run some loops but mainly softsynths that I play.
I need to change patches/splts/tuning/samples for every song.
It's not a DJ/dance thing.

it seems to be a huge flaw in Ableton and a real shame that it doesn't seem designed for keyboard players that actually *play* and not just drag-and-drop beats (which i do also).

I keep thinking i'm missing something in Live, but perhaps not.

Thanks for all your hints and tips anyway.

Kap Zuul
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Post by Kap Zuul » Sat Mar 25, 2006 9:08 pm

Maybe NI can do what we're all lookin for:

check out KORE http://www.native-instruments.com/

Now we just gotta wait and see.

Not really a solution for the Megaset Issue, of course

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