if you dont have operator but need to edit

Johnisfaster · Post by **Johnisfaster** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 7:38 pm

I personally already have operator but for those of us who don't (a friend of mine had this problem)
say someone gives you a song, or you want to open a tutorial song which contains operator, but you don't have operator so the song opens in demo mode so you can't save anything. is there a way to remove operator from the song before you open it so that you can edit and save it?
in the end I had to open my buddys song in my copy of live and remove the operator for him and then give it back to him. but is there a better way of doing this?

djsynchro · Post by **djsynchro** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 7:41 pm

You should email Ableton about that! You should be able to work on something even if you didn't have Operator...

zfigz · Post by **zfigz** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 11:10 pm

well, you could bounce the audio of operator thus saving an extra audio file to add to the sound files directory so then your friend would be able to play the operator song...he might not be able to edit it as detailed as he might llike, but you'd be amazed at how easy audio can be to work with.

Marquis · Post by **Marquis** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 7:37 am

zfigz - spot on. This solves the problem.

But my big issue is knowing when I'm happy enough with my instrument parts to throw away the Operator and just go with the audio. Makes a big problem in mega-multi song live sets, as there's only so many operator/impulse/simplers my machine can run.

I guess the problem with your audio solution to Johnisfaster's issue is that after you give the song with Operator audio dump to your mste, and they edit it and give it back to you, and you then want to change the Operator file, you have to import the original live set and delete the dupe channels...

smutek · Post by **smutek** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 5:04 pm

I wouldn't think Ableton should have to make any special arrangements to accomodate this. It's the same thing as if my friend wants to send me a file with Reaktor elements in it. Since I don't have Reaktor he will either have to bounce the audio or remove the plugs that I do not have. The same logic would apply to Operator.

As far as bouncing the audio, I suggest after bouncing to save it as a different version. songversion1.2bounced or something like that. If you need to make changes save it as songversion1.3 and songversion1.3_bounced ya know?

Thats generally how I work on proects. Not just audio, but design as well. After any major changes I save as a version. When I am finished I have the project folder with a subfolder for the final version and a subfolder for all of the iterative saves and source material. Later down the line this can be burned to disk or otherwise archived to free up HD space.

bigbadotis · Post by **bigbadotis** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 5:28 pm

it's not the same thing...

the song opens in demo mode so he can't save it. That's the problem. If you open a file with Reaktor elements you can remove the plugs yourself. And then save.

smutek · Post by **smutek** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 5:54 pm

Ok, I must have misunderstood. Please clarify:

A song sent by a Live 5 user who owns operator--------> to a live 5 user who does not own operator...

Will open in demo mode even if the song does not include an instance of operator?

bigbadotis · Post by **bigbadotis** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 6:14 pm

no.

maybe I'm the one misunderstanding. If a song includes an instance of Reaktor, and you open it without Reaktor installed, can't you still replace Reaktor with another synth using whatever MIDI is present and just save the file?

you can't do this with operator, because the song would open in demo mode. Some people in this thread think this is significant. It's not a big deal to me personally, but I can see how it would be irritating, especially if you wanted to mass distribute a lot of different .als files.

smutek · Post by **smutek** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 6:30 pm

Ok, I don't think either of us are misunderstanding. We just have different takes on it. You are correct about being able to remove 3rd party plugins.

For me, I stand by my original statement. Knowing that this is the case just bounce the audio and remove instances of operator before sending the file to your partner.

Even if the plug in question was reaktor, I can replace it with something else when I receive the file, but what if my partner does not wish that portion to be edited? He will still have to bounce the audio.

If he does not bounce the audio one of us is going to have to remove the plug anyway, whether he removes it before he sends it or I take it out when I get it. In the case of operator the only option is to remove before sending. But it is still not that big of a difference in my opinion.

Another option, to leave midi editing intact, would be to create a dummy track with the bounced audio of the operator track. Leave the operator track intact but replace it with a simpler. Mute the audio track. This way the person on the other end can hear what you are working on but can still edit the midi.

Personally I don't find it to be that big of a deal and really not that much different than working with third party plugs. Also, I am not sure how Ableton would implement such a change, considering operator is a proprietary plugin.

atmofunk · Post by **atmofunk** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 2:20 am

personally i think it should should just ask you if you want to open in demo mode, and if not, then just disable operator in the opened song and leave the track open for an alternative synth.

THEN it would be acting more like a 3rd party plugin. I think that's all he was getting at.

smutek · Post by **smutek** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 2:25 am

I feel ya man. I am just wondering how hard that would be to implement and how many resources... blah. You know what I am saying.

Johnisfaster · Post by **Johnisfaster** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 2:42 am

see I like atmofunk's idea. it should ask if you want to disable operator or open in demo mode.

longjohns · Post by **longjohns** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:32 am

fwiw, i just learned how to remove operator and save the track. except there is no replacement for the operator, like the bounced audio

open preferences and under the products tab, set operator to "hidden"

then close live and re-lauch.

open your set and then you can delete the operator track and re-save the set