6 better be a rock !!!!

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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mercyplease
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Post by mercyplease » Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:46 am

knotkranky wrote:Why the big opposition? what is so scary about more Live reliability? Why are some of you cats "trying" to kick my ass? 8O
It may seem like that but the question isnt really reliability, I think its cpu useage. Lets face it (and I dont think anyone would deny) that Live is a bit heavy on the cpu slowing the sytstem down so much it can be unbearable to work with. This area must be fixed because it wont be long before Live gets a cpu hog tag with people who dont use it (yet) and thats bad for business.

hoffman2k
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Post by hoffman2k » Thu Mar 30, 2006 12:24 pm

I only have one thing to add to this thread.

Ableton always gives us what the users want the most.
Now the users want stability and more efficient CPU usage.
And Ableton is without a doubt working on it.

What? You want them to admit defeat and drop the hole innovative thing they got going?
Live 5 hasn't exactly been a wonder-child. But most of you love it enough to passionately argue about it.
So some people have been pretty vocal about it. Others wait. And then there's the few assholes who really don't help by fighting, trolling and flaming.

That bothered me for a while, but not anymore.
It's two sides of the same coin. You either bitch and complain or you help. But in the end, you're doing it because you love Live and want to see it improve.

udp
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Post by udp » Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:56 pm

The November 2005 issue of SOS addresses the issue of audio quality in Live in it's review of Live 5. It seems that Ableton is well aware of audio deterioration as one pushes one's system. It's something they are working on, but in the meanwhile we'll all need to work around. Deterioration only occurs when you're pushing your system, so the obvious thing to do is to avoid stressing your system. The Abe's emphasis has been on keeping audio playback in tact while giving up graphics performance. Ableton hq is quoted in the review: "There is no short answer on this. The behaviour of Live's audio processing under heavy load is a complex thing and heavily dependent on the processor type and system architecture (multiple processors or cores). Of course we took care to give the most critical tasks the highest priority (recording over playback, playback over interaction and display)."
OS X.5 MacBook Core 2Duo 2.2ghz, 2Gig RAM Mackie Onyx 400F m-audio BX8's, Oxygen 8, Zoom H-4, Alesis Masterlink, Bitstream 3x
http://www.udpmusic.com

leisuremuffin
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Post by leisuremuffin » Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:54 pm

mercyplease wrote:
leisuremuffin wrote:
mercyplease wrote: I had to titter at your comment that tracking/editing/arranging and mixing is all pro tools can do. This is not enough or important?


For mixing/audio editing and linear arranging Pro tools beats Live hands down but you make it sound like those crucial elements are by the by.

Dont try so hard man.
:wink:

Did you read any of the rest of my posts? I think you miss the point.

No, tracking/mixing/editing/arranging is not enough unless i am working with excellent real time performers.

Did you understand what i meant when i said, "good luck *creating* music with pro tools?"


The majority of people who came to live are from a backround of electronic music, not engineers. These people understand what live excells at, making loop-based music break out of the loop. I'm a little bit on both sides, I've recorded and mixed "rock" bands as well as composed and performed original electronic music. I understand that pro-tools has an advantage for straight up tracking and mixing, but why would anyone buy live if that is all they wanted to do with it? Tracking/mixing and editing does not write music.


And by the way, there's nothing really wrong with live's mixing and editing capabilities, there's just a few simple little features that would put it over the top. Like edit and mix groups as i keep saying. It's not like pro-tools somehow sounds better when mixing. It just has an easier workflow because that is the only thing it does.

.lm.
With all due respect I your experience in general must be limited. No point getting in to a slanging match here but as mentioned I have composed/arranged/mixed entirely with pro tools and live. no probs man :wink:

Yeah, you're right, i obviously don't know what i'm talking about.

Glad you're here to set me straight. Dick.



.lm.
TimeableFloat ???S?e?n?d?I?n?f?o

leisuremuffin
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Post by leisuremuffin » Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:59 pm

knotkranky wrote:
Booya!!! njh, you are a star. Leisuremuffin, it doesn't matter where the glitches come from. You help us more than you know. Power to the people 8)

Actually, yes, it does matter. Because it is the difference between live being "unreliable" or "unstable" and simply cpu heavy. Which you may have noticed is one of the things i've been saying since page one on this thread, and since day one on other bullshit live-bashing threads.




.lm.
TimeableFloat ???S?e?n?d?I?n?f?o

eisnein
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Post by eisnein » Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:41 pm

i retract my comment about being done with this thread.

Quote:
we want Live to be the best it can be which is why we submit requests, beta test, notify abletons of bugs and trouble shoot with other users to get the best possible setups we can. [/quote]

Yes, I understand, but I have to work also. For some in the music business, it just has to work.
oh man with the poo slinging stop already! we get that YOU are PRO! you apparently have time to post on THIS thread so why are you soo beyond submitting requests and shit? you act like we all hate the software and that we dont want it to improve. run the betas on your own time if you cant at work and care so much about the program and oh yeah have some faith that Ableton wants this to be the best program tooo....and oh yeah--- keep in mind that PT JUST added
New Instrument Tracks combine MIDI and audio capabilities in a single channel strip, simplifying routing for virtual instruments and MIDI sound modules
ooooooooooooooooooooooohh!! or or - wait for it wait for it!
New Region Looping feature offers an easy way to repeat one or more audio regions, MIDI regions, and Region Groups, speeding up composing and arranging
i mean there a million ways to start flame wars about different apps... but seriously WE are ALL for Ableton getting better and better specially since the people "in the know" have been using Live since V1....heh heh.
second class robot

knotkranky
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Post by knotkranky » Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:04 pm

hoffman2k wrote:

I only have one thing to add to this thread.

Ableton always gives us what the users want the most.
Now the users want stability and more efficient CPU usage.
And Ableton is without a doubt working on it.
With all due respect, that is a bit disingenuous. we users don't know everything and we certainly don't know when we're not getting stability until after we install the app with a no return policy. Abe's has responsibilities that are not within a users scope and we certainly did not put in requests for less stability and less cpu efficiency.

What? You want them to admit defeat and drop the hole innovative thing they got going?
No sir, but when there is no fight, there is no love. A fundamental need is desperate to be addressed.
Live 5 hasn't exactly been a wonder-child. But most of you love it enough to passionately argue about it.
So some people have been pretty vocal about it. Others wait. And then there's the few assholes who really don't help by fighting, trolling and flaming.

That bothered me for a while, but not anymore.
It's two sides of the same coin. You either bitch and complain or you help. But in the end, you're doing it because you love Live and want to see it improve.
Well said.

If Ableton can get Live tight, stable and to handle a pro size session, it will be accepted into the world of high stakes recording in short order. After that, "everyone" will want it. $$$$

hoffman2k
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Post by hoffman2k » Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:36 pm

knotkranky wrote:
hoffman2k wrote:

I only have one thing to add to this thread.

Ableton always gives us what the users want the most.
Now the users want stability and more efficient CPU usage.
And Ableton is without a doubt working on it.
With all due respect, that is a bit disingenuous. we users don't know everything and we certainly don't know when we're not getting stability until after we install the app with a no return policy. Abe's has responsibilities that are not within a users scope and we certainly did not put in requests for less stability and less cpu efficiency.
Look, Ableton has always paid attention to the needs of their users. Especially because most people at Ableton are users themselves.
Yes, Live 5 may not have been their greatest work. But they owe it to us, themselves and the whole audio community to fix whatever needs fixing.

Disingenuous huh? Well, you got me there. :wink:
Anybody that has paid more then normal attention to this forum, knows that Ableton see's more then you know or think.

I was one of the lucky few who got chosen to visit them at their HQ. They have posts from this forum printed on the bulletin board :lol:
Believe me. They know whats going on around here.
They even hired 2 forum members to extend their support staff. 2 people who will surely act as a relais towards Ableton's programmers.

knotkranky
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Post by knotkranky » Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:53 pm

hoffman2k wrote:
knotkranky wrote:
hoffman2k wrote:

I only have one thing to add to this thread.

Ableton always gives us what the users want the most.
Now the users want stability and more efficient CPU usage.
And Ableton is without a doubt working on it.
With all due respect, that is a bit disingenuous. we users don't know everything and we certainly don't know when we're not getting stability until after we install the app with a no return policy. Abe's has responsibilities that are not within a users scope and we certainly did not put in requests for less stability and less cpu efficiency.
Look, Ableton has always paid attention to the needs of their users. Especially because most people at Ableton are users themselves.
Yes, Live 5 may not have been their greatest work. But they owe it to us, themselves and the whole audio community to fix whatever needs fixing.

Disingenuous huh? Well, you got me there. :wink:
Anybody that has paid more then normal attention to this forum, knows that Ableton see's more then you know or think.

I was one of the lucky few who got chosen to visit them at their HQ. They have posts from this forum printed on the bulletin board :lol:
Believe me. They know whats going on around here.
They even hired 2 forum members to extend their support staff. 2 people who will surely act as a relais towards Ableton's programmers.

Ok, cool. And much thanks to Ableton for their hard work. Question; can you confirm if this thread made the bulletin board and were any of the participants of this thread any of the 2 forum staffers.?

AdamJay
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Post by AdamJay » Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:55 pm

knotkranky wrote: Ok, cool. And much thanks to Ableton for their hard work. Question; can you confirm if this thread made the bulletin board and were any of the participants of this thread any of the 2 forum staffers.?
we were there last fall, long before this thread started.

hoffman2k
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Post by hoffman2k » Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:59 pm

No, the forum staffers are at music messe.
And no. I can not confirm if this thread made the board.
But this doesn't seem like the thread they would hang out anyway.

There are other ways to get their attention. You don't need to piss off half the forum for it :wink:
If you have a problem that you can reproduce, then mail support@ableton.com with detailed info about the steps to reproduce your problem. And your full specs with all the correct (up to date) versions of software.

Don't get pissed if they don't reply. The mails don't go lost, they get assigned to one of the support dudes. Who then decides how to handle the specific situation.

knotkranky
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Post by knotkranky » Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:07 pm

AdamJay wrote:
knotkranky wrote: Ok, cool. And much thanks to Ableton for their hard work. Question; can you confirm if this thread made the bulletin board and were any of the participants of this thread any of the 2 forum staffers.?
we were there last fall, long before this thread started.
I take it you're a staffer and relayed the issue to Abe's last year. Do you feel that 6 will prove significant strides in stability.? Thanx

mercyplease
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Post by mercyplease » Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:29 pm

leisuremuffin wrote:

Yeah, you're right, i obviously don't know what i'm talking about.

Glad you're here to set me straight. Dick.



.lm.
What on earth is your problem?
You seriously need to take a chill pill man. You may have been around here a long time but that doesnt give you a licence to abuse other forum users.
fyi my comment regarding your lack of experience is with Pro tools.

knotkranky
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Post by knotkranky » Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:35 pm

mercyplease wrote:
leisuremuffin wrote:

Yeah, you're right, i obviously don't know what i'm talking about.

Glad you're here to set me straight. Dick.



.lm.
What on earth is your problem?
You seriously need to take a chill pill man. You may have been around here a long time but that doesnt give you a licence to abuse other forum users.
fyi my comment regarding your lack of experience is with Pro tools.

Why don't you guys take it outside. :roll:

AdamJay
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Post by AdamJay » Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:40 pm

knotkranky wrote:
AdamJay wrote:
knotkranky wrote: Ok, cool. And much thanks to Ableton for their hard work. Question; can you confirm if this thread made the bulletin board and were any of the participants of this thread any of the 2 forum staffers.?
we were there last fall, long before this thread started.
I take it you're a staffer and relayed the issue to Abe's last year. Do you feel that 6 will prove significant strides in stability.? Thanx
I am not a "staffer", but i did visit the Ableton HQ last fall, and have done some work for Ableton with user groups and as a contractor at trade shows.

I can assure you that the issue of stability is paramount and at the very top of the list for Ableton. Nothing is more important to them, and it is constantly being worked on.

Since they are a company that doesn't often post on their own forums, this can come across as "secretive", and in some instances be misinterpreted as though they are not concerned with it. Some see a press announcement from them and it has to do with new features rather than stability, and the reaction to this announcement is they do not care about stability, and perhaps just want to make money by adding new features. But i think what you have to remember is press announcements rarely do mention technical details such as that.
These technical details will be found on the beta announcements within the forum.

All i can say is there is alot more going on behind the scenes, on the technical side of things, than what is announced to the public via the internet and trade shows...

ALOT more..

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