Share your thought about pad/keyboard drumming

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
deckme(N)tal
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Share your thought about pad/keyboard drumming

Post by deckme(N)tal » Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:46 am

any tips?
well, i try to emulate some songs/rhythms i have heard...but i always finish with banging the same classic hip hop beat boom bap boom boom bap...
any tips on this?
do you lay hi hats first or bass and snare?
do you quantize or not? how much? 16?
share....share share.... :P

longjohns
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Post by longjohns » Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:18 pm

in the reason 3 demos there's this song called pleasant insanity by thiago pinheiro. apparently he "invented" a method he calls "key drums" - anyhoo, it sounds remarkably natural to me, considering it's all played by hand

i emailed him once and he wrote right back, i think you should try to talk to him

Lo-Fi Massahkah
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Post by Lo-Fi Massahkah » Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:51 pm

Also try different time signatures. I do this not to be caught in standard 4/4 traps. Maybe run the hats in 3/4 and the kick and snare in 4/4. That'll make interesting polyrythms. Or run everything in 6/8! Or 5/4! Or 7/4!

Regards,
Mikael

Pitch Black
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Post by Pitch Black » Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:29 pm

You could try REALLY altering the key assignments of your samples, so that the kick isn't where it normally is etc. Then play by "feel" ie hand position.

Or try playing the whole beat "linear" style with one hand (ie no overlapping notes) that always gives me something that I wouldn't do otherwise.

HTH

dancing Ray
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Post by dancing Ray » Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:33 pm

if you tried emulating rhythms you´ve heard, why do you always end up with the same thing?

my tip: take a song and program the beat (the main loop, most songs have one) as close as you can. then take a another song and do the same, then compare and figure out why they are different. take a third song and a fourth and so on...

start with kick and snare, concentrate on the main parts of the groove (boom bap boom boom bap), those you would sing.

a good one to start with is "Billy Jean" from Michael Jackson´s album "Thriller" :)

takes a little time but hopefully you´ll gain the ability of imagining a rhythm; like you place the midi-events and know how they will sound like.

later you will come to micro-timing (as we drummers say). that´s about milli-seconds that single notes are moved forth or back. it gets really deep into the groove then.

a friend of mine uses to play hihats with his keyboard. it is not as exact as quantized but adds a lively thing to your rhythm (needs some practise also).

another tip is to take some drum lessons to really get into the theory, but insist on NOT learning drum techniques (otherwise you´ll probably end up practising snare drum rudiments for a year or another :lol: )but only this rhythm thing.

that odd meter thing Lo-Fi Massahkah mentioned is also very interesting but I think it´s better to know what you´re doing.

have fun and maybe report your progress
Last edited by dancing Ray on Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.

DeadlyKungFu
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Post by DeadlyKungFu » Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:35 pm

Yeah, I love that boom-bip-da-boom-boom-bip too, sometimes too much.

Create a blank midi clip of 4 or 8 measures, whatever.
Turn on Overdub.
Arm the track and start recording

The clip will keep looping as you add notes to it. Toggle overdub to play along with the clip.

page 186 in the manual

Lo-Fi Massahkah
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Post by Lo-Fi Massahkah » Fri Mar 31, 2006 6:03 am

that odd meter thing Lo-Fi Massahkah mentioned is also very interesting but I think it´s better to know what you´re doing.
I know what I'm doing! I might not be a drummer with knowledge of such mysteries as micro-timing. But when I do what I do, I know what it is. In the described case it's about leaving 4/4 and moving in to time signatures that are not that common in dance and/or pop music. I'm even (lo and behold) suggesting trying out polyrythms as a way of leaving the well threaded track of four-to-the-floor.

Regards,
Mikael

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Post by Pitch Black » Fri Mar 31, 2006 6:21 am

Swedes from Malmö named Mikael are advised not to attempt writing beats. Nor should drummers be using computers . . . :P :wink:

dancing Ray
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Post by dancing Ray » Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:34 am

to Lo-Fi Massahkah:

huh, I didn´t want to offend anyone.

it´s just that putting different meters together can result in really weird stuff and I
can´t imagine that you know what it will sound like in the third bar, if you put a 3/4
bassdrum together with a 7/8 snare pattern together with 11/16 HH.

I sometimes like the try and error method, too.

about this other thing: undoubtedly you have ears and do the micro-time thing. I think everyone who is not in really staight techno-music does it.
it´s about turning the grid off and move the 2s and 4s or whatever just a little, little, little bit.

Nor should drummers be using computers . . .
8O 8O 8O what should I do without my computer, should I play drums again, then? 8O :cry:

Lo-Fi Massahkah
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Post by Lo-Fi Massahkah » Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:48 am

huh, I didn´t want to offend anyone.
No offense is really taken. I just thought that it was a weird statement.
it´s just that putting different meters together can result in really weird stuff
That is part of the whole point! The original poster wanted to get input on how not get caught in "Boom Bap Boom Boom Bap"!
if you put a 3/4 bassdrum together with a 7/8 snare pattern together with 11/16 HH.
I didn't go quite that far. :wink:
I can´t imagine that you know what it will sound like in the third bar
Well if we stay with my original example. "Maybe run the hats in 3/4 and the kick and snare in 4/4". Then we'll have a pattern that is repeating in 3 bars. It's not exactly rocket science... :roll:

Image

Also check out this .als.

Regards,
Mikael

dancing Ray
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Post by dancing Ray » Sat Apr 01, 2006 7:17 pm

Also check out this .als.
Yeah, this is cool,

but you already have that interesting basic kick/snare pattern that is not "Boom Bap Boom Boom Bap". My honest question: how did you come to that?


Ray

Lo-Fi Massahkah
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Post by Lo-Fi Massahkah » Sat Apr 01, 2006 8:23 pm

Hmmm... How did I come up with that?

Just wanted to state an example showing that my idea wasn't as complicated as you wanted it to be. :wink: Not much time. One bar. Put the clip on play and listened while adding notes. Started with kicks on one and three. Added a ghost kick. Moved the snare one 16th (not exactly micro-timing) and added an extra hit. No biggie!

Cheers,
Mikael

dancing Ray
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Post by dancing Ray » Sun Apr 02, 2006 11:37 am

Hey, deckme(N)tal,
Started with kicks on one and three. Added a ghost kick. Moved the snare one 16th
Begin with simple things as "Boom Bap Boom Boom Bap". Add notes or just move them or delete them.

Example: put another snare between the two booms and add a snare on the last 16th of the bar but be aware of the velocity. Make them ghost notes (ghost notes are notes with very low velocity). Now delete the first of the two booms. Put on 8th notes on the HH and again be aware of the velocity. Try and alternate loud notes and less loud notes, also begin with the less loud note which sounds quite different. Then move that snare on the four either a 16th forth or back or an 8th farther to the end. ... or try moving the first snare... ... or ... :)

Quantize on 16th is good to start with.


to Lo-Fi Massahkah:

I presume that you knew what you were doing when you programmed that beat. You at least had an idea of what that ghost kick would do to it, as well as the moved snare, BEFORE you placed the notes.

Ray

Lo-Fi Massahkah
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Post by Lo-Fi Massahkah » Sun Apr 02, 2006 3:51 pm

Hi Ray!
I presume that you knew what you were doing when you programmed that beat. You at least had an idea of what that ghost kick would do to it, as well as the moved snare, BEFORE you placed the notes.
Not really - but listening while programming can work miracles. I definitely do not have the experience to know what feeling a certain combination of hits will give me. But I know enough to know what to try. And I know enough to break some rules - which is no problem as long as you have ears.

Cheers,
Mikael

dancing Ray
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Post by dancing Ray » Sun Apr 02, 2006 4:26 pm

Hi,

thinking of it, it´s exactly the same with me doing harmonic or melodic stuff. :)

So long,
Ray

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