yet another midi controller topic - BC*2000s vs Trigger Fngr

cashman · Post by **cashman** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:01 pm

*sorry for the long topic name, it was the most humourous I could come up with at the time*

Okay, I am new to the whole latptop DJ and midi controller scene, but am becoming more interested in it the more I learn. I can see that Live will be a great program to use to this end, but I'd like to get a midi controller to have 'hands on' control over what the program can do.
I was all set to buy an M-Audio Trigger Finger after I went to a shop and tried one out with Live (the SoundCentre in the V*rgin Megastore in Oxford St, London), but after reading the wealth of information on this great forum, I am very attracted by the Behringer BCR/F2000 controllers.

Here's the dilemma - I only have the money for one device (despite my name!), I would like faders and knobs, I can see myself wanting to control Volume, an EQ Three (on/offs & gains) and stop/start of clips on two tracks, stop/start and vol of another two tracks and master volume - something fairly similar to a regular DJ mixer.

At the moment, either the BC* models are winning, but then, I'm not sure which one I'd get!

I would really appreciate some feedback from people who use either the BCF2000, BCR2000 or Trigger Finger including what they play and how they control it.

Thanks very much in advance!

<edit - I am trying to play House and Techno, if that's any help.>

hambone1 · Post by **hambone1** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:32 pm

IMO, the BCR is the best value for money and the most versatile. 32 knobs, 20 buttons, all with additional encoder groups and presets. Not built very well, though, and if you rely on it for your job (or reputation!), I'd get a backup.

The BCF is pricier, and once you get past the "Check it!" novelty of moving faders, you'll realize how much more efficient and economical the BCR is, and how much less there is to go wrong. And you can almost buy two BCRs for the cost of a BCF.

If you want to actually play percussion/etc, though, and need velocity sensitivity, you'd have to go with the Trigger Finger.

deckme(N)tal · Post by **deckme(N)tal** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:50 pm

wait for the new akai pads controller...

John Sweet · Post by **John Sweet** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:38 pm

Trigger Finger pads can send CC values based on pressure that you can use to control anything in Live. If you map the note and CC for a pad, you can trigger something and immediately tweak it with the same movement. If you use all the presets I think that adds up to 256/512 controls, plus it's an instrument. It's smaller than the BCR, and I like it more, but there's no replacement for encoders for things like scene select and tempo control, and the BCR wins there.

anti-banausic · Post by **anti-banausic** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:19 pm

Well, I am a new BCR2000 convert, and must say, it depends on your needs. But as far as sheer control over LIVE as far as ease of recording, soloing, launching, the BCR (in Mackie emulation mode), kicks some serious ass.

In fact, I don't know what I did before. In one day, it has changed my workflow so much, things are so much easier.

The whole mackie emulation thing can be a bit tricky to get going right away, and you really need huskervu if you are using it....and then there is a slight learning curve as to all of the massive control and functionality. But I really don't know what I did without it.

Still have my UC33e, but it has really been relegated to control for softsynths, not LIVE.

But if you need the pads to rock out the beats, then again, the trigger finger is better.

cashman · Post by **cashman** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:28 pm

Thank you all for replying.

This is the good thing about forums, cheers people!

Hmm..looks like the BCR is in the lead, those moving faders do seem nice though

Keep to coming, I want to get something nice at Turnkey (a London music shop specializing in studio/ electronic equipment) at the weekend.

longjohns · Post by **longjohns** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 1:43 am

i have the bcf. i find it's not so much about having _moving_ faders as a fancy feature (though it's pretty handy to have the positions update, so no jumping/ need for "pick-up" behavior)

i just like the faders better than the encoders. maybe by editing the speed of the encoders i'd be happier with them. depending on how fast you turn it, i could see it taking several revolutions to go the full range 0-127. i have to keep letting go and repositioning my fingers to give it another, and yet another spin...

with a fader, it's right there - bam: that's exactly where the top and bottom of your range of control is. and you can quickly move to 3/4 without watching some readout of what the value is.

they are a little bit on the noisy side, but that isn't a problem for me because i'm always on headphones and don't use microphones generally

thelike5 · Post by **thelike5** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:09 am

I think if you look used, you may be able to find a cheap second hand trigger finger, and the behringer. I could see the benefits of both...

Also, as someone else pointed out, Akai's new MPD looks pretty nice too... might be worth waiting for...

cashman · Post by **cashman** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:44 am

to longjohns - I know what you mean about the rotary encoders it uses, apparently they are 'endless' which I can see as being a bit wierd. If they had a finite start and finish, it would be more natural for me, although I suppose that would mean less precision as they are fairly small (?). I have also read somewhere on this forum that they can be altered to be made 'faster'. I also read somewhere that the position of the knob is given by LEDs around the encoder itself.

to thelike5 - mmm.. both! Must sell something I own! Anyone interested in Brazilian hand percussion? Pandeiro for sale!

cheers

John Sweet · Post by **John Sweet** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:58 am

You can switch the mode of the knobs from encoders to absolute 0-127. This makes 1 big turn=full value & is better for EQs, etc.

A TF from Ebay or wherever is fine, but I would never bank on used Behringer gear. I feel like my BCR would break if I looked at it the wrong way.

cashman · Post by **cashman** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 11:12 pm

Thanks John Sweet.

I have decided that I'm going to get a BCR2000 tomorrow afternoon!

Thank you all for your help, I'm joining the club now.

NB. Forum Mod - This post is officially dead.

longjohns · Post by **longjohns** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 12:52 am

re: encoder function,

1. can you switch the function even under mackie emulation?

2. if you switch it, will you then get "jumps" when moving betweeen and adjusting different parameters.