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 Post subject: Afrika Bambaataa's permission from Kraftwerk?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 10:16 pm 

Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 8:09 pm
Posts: 96
Location: CA
I've been arguing this with a friend and I did some research on Google which turned up nothing much:

Did Afrika Bambaataa receive prior permission from Kraftwerk to copy their famous Trans Europe Express hook? How did this process go? (as I don't think sampling was commonplace and music copyright laws were as advanced as they are today)


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 Post subject: Re: Afrika Bambaataa's permission from Kraftwerk?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 10:26 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 7:39 pm
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Location: Oregon
NewSc2 wrote:
I've been arguing this with a friend and I did some research on Google which turned up nothing much:

Did Afrika Bambaataa receive prior permission from Kraftwerk to copy their famous Trans Europe Express hook? How did this process go? (as I don't think sampling was commonplace and music copyright laws were as advanced as they are today)


No permission was requested from what I know. It was a straight street deal. Bambaataa liked the hook. It was being played as a break anyway. He used it. There was not the concept for sample permission at that time from my experience.

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 Post subject: Re: Afrika Bambaataa's permission from Kraftwerk?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 10:54 pm 

Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 8:09 pm
Posts: 96
Location: CA
kennerb wrote:
NewSc2 wrote:
I've been arguing this with a friend and I did some research on Google which turned up nothing much:

Did Afrika Bambaataa receive prior permission from Kraftwerk to copy their famous Trans Europe Express hook? How did this process go? (as I don't think sampling was commonplace and music copyright laws were as advanced as they are today)


No permission was requested from what I know. It was a straight street deal. Bambaataa liked the hook. It was being played as a break anyway. He used it. There was not the concept for sample permission at that time from my experience.


Hm, did he list Kraftwerk in the vinyl at all?


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 Post subject: Re: Afrika Bambaataa's permission from Kraftwerk?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 11:05 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 6:29 am
Posts: 507
Location: Irvine , California
NewSc2 wrote:
kennerb wrote:
NewSc2 wrote:
I've been arguing this with a friend and I did some research on Google which turned up nothing much:

Did Afrika Bambaataa receive prior permission from Kraftwerk to copy their famous Trans Europe Express hook? How did this process go? (as I don't think sampling was commonplace and music copyright laws were as advanced as they are today)


No permission was requested from what I know. It was a straight street deal. Bambaataa liked the hook. It was being played as a break anyway. He used it. There was not the concept for sample permission at that time from my experience.


Hm, did he list Kraftwerk in the vinyl at all?


Kraftwerk performed in Harlem to a sold out crowd. I think Zulu Nation did a ton for Kraftwerk that sampling rights could ever cover. :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 11:41 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2006 4:45 am
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Location: Rochester, NY
i don't think he got (or even tried to get) permission from Kraftwerk for the 'trans europe' synth line *or* the 'numbers' beat that he used for 'planet rock'. can't recall if they tried to sue him or not. could be wrong though...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 12:34 am 

Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 6:25 am
Posts: 150
Location: Melbourne
I'm sure I read in an interview with Tommy Silverman that they had no permission beforehand and had to pay up once the record was out, but the track was so hot they just put up the price to cover it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 7:16 am 

Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 12:13 pm
Posts: 148
Here's the scoop: (confirming the above post)

Arthur Baker and john Robie produced the record, and Tommy Boy decided to put it out immediately. They didn't think anything of it. It was so hot the 12" single went on to sell approximately 750,000 copies.

Kraftwerk hit them with a lawsuit which was settled WITH DAMAGES for approximately 3 times what they would have had to pay if they had negotiated in good faith beforehand. (this was all about publishing, as they replayed everything, so there were no master rights involved)

Live and Learn™.

D.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 11:25 am 

Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 12:22 pm
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Location: Glasgow, Scotland
The above is true, Kraftwerk didn't give permission and weren't asked... for more info on all things Kraftwerk-related have a look at "I Was A Robot" by Wolfgang Flur. Very good read.
:)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 9:33 pm 

Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 6:42 pm
Posts: 190
Location: Finland
Flur's book has apparently been strongly denounced by Ralf and Florian. It seems that Pascal Bussy's "Kraftwerk - Man, Machine and Music" is not endorsed by Kraftwerk either, but it presents things in a more neutral (?) light. In any case, it corroborates drumroll57's account.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 12:01 am 

Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2006 11:51 pm
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OT: I heard that old song "Daisy Dukes"("Ohhhhh, look at the girls with daisy dukes on, I want you to..;")yesterday, it used to have a cool bridge where it played the "don't stop" from Planet Rock...I guess since it was released several years back there's been a problem with sample clearance because the bridge now has a weak sample that says "alright alright". sounds like crap and out of place in the song. I had always assumed that Afrika Bambataa was lenient with the use of his samples like Parliament is..


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 5:14 am 

Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 1:06 pm
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Location: Miami
So the operative model seems to be... just do it! If it's a flop nobody will notice, no money to bait the lawyers. If it's a hit, you can afford to pay them off anyway. :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 9:44 am 

Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 6:25 am
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Location: Melbourne
Cone wrote:
Flur's book has apparently been strongly denounced by Ralf and Florian.

:D Lol - that made me think of Frasier for some reason....


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 9:50 am 

Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:15 pm
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Anubis wrote:
So the operative model seems to be... just do it! If it's a flop nobody will notice, no money to bait the lawyers. If it's a hit, you can afford to pay them off anyway. :lol:

uhm.. no: If it's a hit the owner of the sample could sue and get everything. If you've sampled multiple sources they each might have a large claim, that, put together, could exceed the earnings of the song, effectively costing you money everytime it's played on the radio, etc.

This is no joke, it's happened before.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 2:35 pm 

Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:34 pm
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Location: NYC during the day - Hoboken, NJ at bedtime
telekom wrote:
The above is true, Kraftwerk didn't give permission and weren't asked... for more info on all things Kraftwerk-related have a look at "I Was A Robot" by Wolfgang Flur. Very good read.
:)


I've read this book. Pretty interesting stuff but definitely one sided. The book itself acts as an instrument in an on-going band dispute. Reading it reminded me of how heavy things can get with long term bandmates.

I remember reading the paragraph when Wolfgang talks about hearing the Bambaataa track for the first time. It was kind of shocking. If I remember correctly he thought it was cheap and uninspired sounding crap. It kind of blew me away. Here is a major song that helped transform and evolve the hip hop movement, which ultimately forever changed American culture as we know it... permanently leaving a huge dent on global culture, and his remarks were mere sneers.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 2:46 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 9:47 am
Posts: 17422
Location: Queensland, AU
Sales Dude McBoob wrote:
telekom wrote:
The above is true, Kraftwerk didn't give permission and weren't asked... for more info on all things Kraftwerk-related have a look at "I Was A Robot" by Wolfgang Flur. Very good read.
:)


I've read this book. Pretty interesting stuff but definitely one sided. The book itself acts as an instrument in an on-going band dispute. Reading it reminded me of how heavy things can get with long term bandmates.

I remember reading the paragraph when Wolfgang talks about hearing the Bambaataa track for the first time. It was kind of shocking. If I remember correctly he thought it was cheap and uninspired sounding crap. It kind of blew me away. Here is a major song that helped transform and evolve the hip hop movement, which ultimately forever changed American culture as we know it... permanently leaving a huge dent on global culture, and his remarks were mere sneers.


He might not care about American culture or global impact. He might actually just think it was cheap and uninspired sounding crap.

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