I've been arguing this with a friend and I did some research on Google which turned up nothing much:
Did Afrika Bambaataa receive prior permission from Kraftwerk to copy their famous Trans Europe Express hook? How did this process go? (as I don't think sampling was commonplace and music copyright laws were as advanced as they are today)
Afrika Bambaataa's permission from Kraftwerk?
Re: Afrika Bambaataa's permission from Kraftwerk?
No permission was requested from what I know. It was a straight street deal. Bambaataa liked the hook. It was being played as a break anyway. He used it. There was not the concept for sample permission at that time from my experience.NewSc2 wrote:I've been arguing this with a friend and I did some research on Google which turned up nothing much:
Did Afrika Bambaataa receive prior permission from Kraftwerk to copy their famous Trans Europe Express hook? How did this process go? (as I don't think sampling was commonplace and music copyright laws were as advanced as they are today)
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Re: Afrika Bambaataa's permission from Kraftwerk?
Hm, did he list Kraftwerk in the vinyl at all?kennerb wrote:No permission was requested from what I know. It was a straight street deal. Bambaataa liked the hook. It was being played as a break anyway. He used it. There was not the concept for sample permission at that time from my experience.NewSc2 wrote:I've been arguing this with a friend and I did some research on Google which turned up nothing much:
Did Afrika Bambaataa receive prior permission from Kraftwerk to copy their famous Trans Europe Express hook? How did this process go? (as I don't think sampling was commonplace and music copyright laws were as advanced as they are today)
Re: Afrika Bambaataa's permission from Kraftwerk?
Kraftwerk performed in Harlem to a sold out crowd. I think Zulu Nation did a ton for Kraftwerk that sampling rights could ever cover.NewSc2 wrote:Hm, did he list Kraftwerk in the vinyl at all?kennerb wrote:No permission was requested from what I know. It was a straight street deal. Bambaataa liked the hook. It was being played as a break anyway. He used it. There was not the concept for sample permission at that time from my experience.NewSc2 wrote:I've been arguing this with a friend and I did some research on Google which turned up nothing much:
Did Afrika Bambaataa receive prior permission from Kraftwerk to copy their famous Trans Europe Express hook? How did this process go? (as I don't think sampling was commonplace and music copyright laws were as advanced as they are today)
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drumroll57
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Here's the scoop: (confirming the above post)
Arthur Baker and john Robie produced the record, and Tommy Boy decided to put it out immediately. They didn't think anything of it. It was so hot the 12" single went on to sell approximately 750,000 copies.
Kraftwerk hit them with a lawsuit which was settled WITH DAMAGES for approximately 3 times what they would have had to pay if they had negotiated in good faith beforehand. (this was all about publishing, as they replayed everything, so there were no master rights involved)
Live and Learn™.
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Arthur Baker and john Robie produced the record, and Tommy Boy decided to put it out immediately. They didn't think anything of it. It was so hot the 12" single went on to sell approximately 750,000 copies.
Kraftwerk hit them with a lawsuit which was settled WITH DAMAGES for approximately 3 times what they would have had to pay if they had negotiated in good faith beforehand. (this was all about publishing, as they replayed everything, so there were no master rights involved)
Live and Learn™.
D.
stay groovy!
The above is true, Kraftwerk didn't give permission and weren't asked... for more info on all things Kraftwerk-related have a look at "I Was A Robot" by Wolfgang Flur. Very good read.
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parsifal74
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OT: I heard that old song "Daisy Dukes"("Ohhhhh, look at the girls with daisy dukes on, I want you to..;")yesterday, it used to have a cool bridge where it played the "don't stop" from Planet Rock...I guess since it was released several years back there's been a problem with sample clearance because the bridge now has a weak sample that says "alright alright". sounds like crap and out of place in the song. I had always assumed that Afrika Bambataa was lenient with the use of his samples like Parliament is..
So the operative model seems to be... just do it! If it's a flop nobody will notice, no money to bait the lawyers. If it's a hit, you can afford to pay them off anyway. 
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Lol - that made me think of Frasier for some reason....uhm.. no: If it's a hit the owner of the sample could sue and get everything. If you've sampled multiple sources they each might have a large claim, that, put together, could exceed the earnings of the song, effectively costing you money everytime it's played on the radio, etc.Anubis wrote:So the operative model seems to be... just do it! If it's a flop nobody will notice, no money to bait the lawyers. If it's a hit, you can afford to pay them off anyway.
This is no joke, it's happened before.
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Sales Dude McBoob
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I've read this book. Pretty interesting stuff but definitely one sided. The book itself acts as an instrument in an on-going band dispute. Reading it reminded me of how heavy things can get with long term bandmates.telekom wrote:The above is true, Kraftwerk didn't give permission and weren't asked... for more info on all things Kraftwerk-related have a look at "I Was A Robot" by Wolfgang Flur. Very good read.
I remember reading the paragraph when Wolfgang talks about hearing the Bambaataa track for the first time. It was kind of shocking. If I remember correctly he thought it was cheap and uninspired sounding crap. It kind of blew me away. Here is a major song that helped transform and evolve the hip hop movement, which ultimately forever changed American culture as we know it... permanently leaving a huge dent on global culture, and his remarks were mere sneers.
He might not care about American culture or global impact. He might actually just think it was cheap and uninspired sounding crap.Sales Dude McBoob wrote:I've read this book. Pretty interesting stuff but definitely one sided. The book itself acts as an instrument in an on-going band dispute. Reading it reminded me of how heavy things can get with long term bandmates.telekom wrote:The above is true, Kraftwerk didn't give permission and weren't asked... for more info on all things Kraftwerk-related have a look at "I Was A Robot" by Wolfgang Flur. Very good read.
I remember reading the paragraph when Wolfgang talks about hearing the Bambaataa track for the first time. It was kind of shocking. If I remember correctly he thought it was cheap and uninspired sounding crap. It kind of blew me away. Here is a major song that helped transform and evolve the hip hop movement, which ultimately forever changed American culture as we know it... permanently leaving a huge dent on global culture, and his remarks were mere sneers.