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 Post subject: making new clips.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2002 9:25 pm 

Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2002 4:18 am
Posts: 225
Location: San Francisco, CA USA
I can create clips from Reason (but the lengths are still a mystery, they appear to be random) but I cannot get them into the arrange window. The manual says they should just appear in the arrange window but they do not. I can choose a file from the browser but how do I arrange new clips while I am mixing live? Doesn't Live arrange clips live? I thought it was supposed to be "Live".


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2002 4:09 am 

Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 7:39 pm
Posts: 35
Location: minnesota
Hey there.
You have to put your new clips into the Arranger window by hand. They don't get recorded there; instead they get recorded on (and into) the session view. Then you can drag the clips over to the arranger (drag the clip over the arranger button on the top right of the screen) for sequencing and editing. You can do this while audio is running -- making it live.

Does that make any sense?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2002 4:56 am 
Thanks for answer.
I am afraid that either I am retarded or your suggestion makes no sense (by the way where in the manual is this trick documented?). Dragging the clip accomplished nothing except for changing to the arrange window. No clip was transfered. This demo is very frustrating.It just does not feel or behave like other audio sequencing programs I am familiar with. Sometimes reinventing the wheel is counter productive.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2002 4:57 am 

Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 7:39 pm
Posts: 35
Location: minnesota
I don't know if this helps, but Live is not like other sequencer programs. It takes a little while to pick it up, but it becomes second nature. And, like many things, it is its own reward. It's pretty close in some regards--more like ProTools than Logic, say.

There seems to be a sort of bug that makes some files very small when you drag them into the arranger. Try zooming in extra close to see if there is a very short version of the file. You can then drag it out to its full length.

You can also place files directly into the arranger using the file browser. Have you tried this? It should give you a better handle on how to drag clips around and place them.

I use Live every day pretty much and I've had no problems coming to grips with it. Any good tool has some kind of learning curve, even a hammer. you just have to put in a little exploration time and you'll totally get it.

And the manual goes over this stuff in the chapter about the interface and in the one about the arranger.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2002 6:06 pm 

Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2002 4:18 am
Posts: 225
Location: San Francisco, CA USA
Thank you again for responding.
I think you are right about the microscopic clip bug. I see a tiny blinking sliver and I get a short blip at the insertion point. However, the manual that comes with the Demo ends at chapter two and Ableton has done a remarkable job of hiding the zoom tool. So far this reminds me less of a audio sequencer and more of "Tomb Raider". Except Tomb Raider was easier.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2002 12:21 am 

Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 7:39 pm
Posts: 35
Location: minnesota
If you position the cursor over the row in the arranger where the measure numbers appear you'll see a magnifying glass icon. If you click and hold, you can scroll up to zoom out and down to zoom in. You should also notice that if you move your mouse around on the box-shaped outline that you see in the overview display, different cursors will appear. The bracket cursors allow you to drag to change the size of the viewing area (find the brackets by positioning you mouse at the left or roght edges of the display area box).

Hope this helps.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2002 11:15 pm 

Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2002 4:18 am
Posts: 225
Location: San Francisco, CA USA
Now I got it. Thanks again.
The zoom tool works fine after you figure it out but it is not an improvement over other conventional zoom tools. It is simply "cute". I hope they fix the micro clip bug in 1.5, it is annoying to have to resize the clip after you transfer them to the arrange window.
The truncated online manual leaves me guessing about the possibilities of this software.
So how do I control the length of a clip I have created? Some tracks make 4 bar loops, some make 8 bars, some make 12 bars...it seems I have tried changing the loop length but that does'nt do it. Is that also in chapter 4?
I realize they would probably like to reserve the whole manual for paying customers but I prefer to research a program thoroughly before letting go of my hard earned cash.
Thanks again for your help, you seem to have a good grasp of Live and its functions.
Do you multitrack vocals and instruments with Live?


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 Post subject: Your troubles
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2002 10:47 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 3:37 pm
Posts: 170
Location: Ableton Headquarter
Hi Geraldo,

the length of the clips you record depends on how long you record. If you are using one-bar quantization, Live will wait for the downbeat until recording starts, and stops. The current audio recording is really focussed on live use. For instance, you can switch from recording a clip to playing it without interruption (just click the recording clip's play-button again).

Reading about your frustrating experience with the Live demo has helped me a lot. You have clearly pointed at what's going wrong, and must be improved. Thanks.

Gerhard Behles
ableton


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2002 2:21 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2002 12:21 pm
Posts: 174
Location: Ableton Headquarters
Geraldo,

thanks for sharing your opinion. Your points are
taken.

One thing that makes me wonder is that you haven't
been able to figure out how to zoom. Did you hide
the info view pane in the lower left corner?

This tells you about all zoom/pan possibilities
whenever you move your mouse over the respective
areas. So there's no need to look into the manual
here (even if I personally agree that a truncated
manual is no good).

Best,
Stefan


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2002 6:33 pm 
Hi Stefan,
I did not hide the info pane. Although I really liked the info pane at 1st, I have found it gives me eye strain to continually be looking back and forth between it and the cursor. I used to hate balloons now I miss them. The confusion is because the info changes suddenly with very small movements of the mouse because the functions the mouse moves over are so close togther. This makes it easy to miss a description if you are not looking VERY carefully. This coupled with the tremendous amount of features makes it impossible for the info pane system to replace a paper manual. It boils down to this: If you don't know what you are looking for in the 1st place, the info pane is not going to tell you what you are looking for. A manual provides a knowledge base for the user to start from so he/she can ask informed questions. I think the info pane is great for someone who has already read the manual and needs reminding.
That said, I want to say I am starting to really enjoy Live and will probably buy it .


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2002 8:46 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 7:39 pm
Posts: 35
Location: minnesota
Yo Geraldo.
I discovered that if you place a marker at the last beat (the end, basically) of a clip you want to drag into the arranger, the whole thing should appear when it's dropped. Give it a shot and see if it works.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2002 12:03 am 
The 1st 2 chapters of the manual discuss moving warp markers within the clip view window thing at the bottom of the arrange window. The ability to insert a marker is not discussed and I have not figured out how yet.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2002 12:05 am 

Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2002 4:18 am
Posts: 225
Location: San Francisco, CA USA
How do you do that?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2002 4:38 am 

Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 7:39 pm
Posts: 35
Location: minnesota
It's very easy. Double click on one of the grey triangles you see in the clip editor. It'll turn green and you'll be able to move it to help reposition the beat.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2002 5:08 am 

Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2002 4:18 am
Posts: 225
Location: San Francisco, CA USA
This string is getting long but I have another very basic question I can't find in the 1st 2 chapters.
After I have my clips in the arrange window how do I get them to play as an arrangement? They continue to loop as if they are still playing from the clip window. I can position them but the audio does not follow the arrangement.
In Cubase or Logic once you position a clip in the arrangement window it plays as the marker chases over it. Apparently there is some mysterious additional preparation to get an arrangement to play in Live and I cannot figure it out.
I must be very dense.


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