Hi y'all
My ideal setup in terms of keeping the spontaneity and vibe going while I'm making music is to have Ableton running within Cubase SX and be able to route audio from SX to Ableton. In this way I can jam with VSTI's and use Ableton as I feel it's intended to be used - as a live phrase sampler/playback tool.
At the moment, I can't work this way - SX stuff has to be mixed down to wav files and imported, because Rewire only handles audio coming from the slave app (ableton) into the master app (SX). Which is not good for workflow - the fewer steps between having an idea and realising it, the better, in my book.
The crux of the matter - is this a universal limitation of Rewire? Is it uni-directional? ie in a situation where you have application A (Cubase SX) as the master app and application B (Ableton) as the slave, B can only send audio to A?
Cheers,
Matthew
Full-duplex Rewire?
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tribalogical
- Posts: 318
- Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2003 7:26 pm
- Location: boise, idaho
two issues there really...
Master or Slave-ability is determined by an app's specific implementation of the Rewire spec... Most apps could be both if the developer wanted it that way.
That said, I'm not sure Rewire audio is "bi-directional".
Examples:
- Reason is "slave only" (except with Rebirth, but that's a special case). Reason has no other audio input capacity, so making it the master app doesn't make much sense.
- Live can be run as either Master or Slave (man, that sounds kinky).
- Cubase, and most other full-featured DAWs such as Cubase VST, SX, and Logic, et al, are usually Master only.
I don't know this for certain, but I imagine there are some pretty deep considerations in trying to make something like Logic or SX act as a rewire slave... It's probably harder than it looks.
Perhaps we'd all like to see the ability to route audio from the master app's outputs to the slave's inputs, while retaining the master/slave relationship in terms of control, etc...? I'm not sure that's part of the Rewire spec at present... but certainly something to suggest to the Prop'heads, see what they think...!
And of course, someone here from Ableton could probably answer that better than I can...
peace,
tribalogical
Master or Slave-ability is determined by an app's specific implementation of the Rewire spec... Most apps could be both if the developer wanted it that way.
That said, I'm not sure Rewire audio is "bi-directional".
Examples:
- Reason is "slave only" (except with Rebirth, but that's a special case). Reason has no other audio input capacity, so making it the master app doesn't make much sense.
- Live can be run as either Master or Slave (man, that sounds kinky).
- Cubase, and most other full-featured DAWs such as Cubase VST, SX, and Logic, et al, are usually Master only.
I don't know this for certain, but I imagine there are some pretty deep considerations in trying to make something like Logic or SX act as a rewire slave... It's probably harder than it looks.
Perhaps we'd all like to see the ability to route audio from the master app's outputs to the slave's inputs, while retaining the master/slave relationship in terms of control, etc...? I'm not sure that's part of the Rewire spec at present... but certainly something to suggest to the Prop'heads, see what they think...!
And of course, someone here from Ableton could probably answer that better than I can...
peace,
tribalogical
Agreed. Considering the functionality of Logic/SX it doesn't seem rational for them to be rewire slaves. But as you say, the fact that these apps are rewire master-only needn't impact on bidirectional audio communication between master and slave.tribalogical wrote: Master or Slave-ability is determined by an app's specific implementation of the Rewire spec... [] I don't know this for certain, but I imagine there are some pretty deep considerations in trying to make something like Logic or SX act as a rewire slave... It's probably harder than it looks.
The big question is whether rewire is/will support it.
As I've already said, I think the impact would be enormous - a fantastic improvement to my workflow, and a real feeling of maintaining a live jam. No stopping to render stuff to files. Bouncing stuff back and forth between SX and ableton.
As an experiment I set the ableton beta up on my laptop and recorded vsti's running on my desktop into ableton. This is what got me excited about the whole thing, because it was a great way of working. I actually cut SX out of the equation and hosted my vst setup in Plogue Bidule. The problem with this, is the pretty bad latency I get on my emi 2|6, which at 20 ms + my desktop latency made for a pretty unresponsive playing session, especially since I was having to monitor the vsti's through ableton to be able to hear them...
Anyway. Back to the fun. I'm going to try hosting ableton from reason2 to get a feeling from what it *could* be like with bidirectional rewire and SX!
Cheers,
Matthew.
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stevie_
sytem link live
how about putting system link functionality into ableton`s live.
Personally i`ve had no experiance with system link but you never
know,this could give bi-directional flow of audio between SX and live.
Personally i`ve had no experiance with system link but you never
know,this could give bi-directional flow of audio between SX and live.
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noisetonepause
- Posts: 4938
- Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2002 3:38 pm
- Location: Sticks and stones
What we need is system support for 'Virtual Inputs and Outputs'; in essence. The technology is there in OSX, I'm told, it just hasn't been implemented yet. You'd just specify any number of ins and outs in Audio MIDI setup, wire some of them together, and then your apps would see them as hardware ins and outs (Audio MIDI setup might need a mixer - with MIDI CC automation and AU inserts and sends, naturally 
:twisted::D:twisted::D)... sync 'em up via CoreMIDI, and we'd have no more need for ReWire or AU-instruments or VSTis or anything like that.
-Paws
:twisted::D:twisted::D)... sync 'em up via CoreMIDI, and we'd have no more need for ReWire or AU-instruments or VSTis or anything like that.-Paws
A work around.That i find nice and easy.
Open Cubase. Open Live
Name your Live song and save it as self contained
Name your Cubase song and specify the self contained folder of your Live song as the audio folder.
Now when you record audio or export a wav or aiff all the audio info for both apps reside in the one folder-- easily and quickly accesible for both Live and Cubase.
You can now also use Cubases reverse, normalizer, duplication, fade etc etc actions on the audio parts- the beauty being you can now reverse audio for use in live ! Hurray !
You can save all the song files in one main folder that contains all relevant data. Cubase songs, Live songs and audio data saved conviently for retreval under one file.
Uni-directional rewire would be great, i agree, but working the above way takes out a lot of the chore and you can still record your vsti's playing them live (without using midi) and directly record into a wav or aiff file and have it immediately come up in live by simply dragging the file into the app.
best
Open Cubase. Open Live
Name your Live song and save it as self contained
Name your Cubase song and specify the self contained folder of your Live song as the audio folder.
Now when you record audio or export a wav or aiff all the audio info for both apps reside in the one folder-- easily and quickly accesible for both Live and Cubase.
You can now also use Cubases reverse, normalizer, duplication, fade etc etc actions on the audio parts- the beauty being you can now reverse audio for use in live ! Hurray !
You can save all the song files in one main folder that contains all relevant data. Cubase songs, Live songs and audio data saved conviently for retreval under one file.
Uni-directional rewire would be great, i agree, but working the above way takes out a lot of the chore and you can still record your vsti's playing them live (without using midi) and directly record into a wav or aiff file and have it immediately come up in live by simply dragging the file into the app.
best