Loops and guilt

[djadonis206]

this is blantantly a jack move but it's stuck in my head and there's nothing I can do about it

Artist: Trey Parker Lyrics
Song: Freedom Isn't Free Lyrics

What would you do
If you were asked to give up your dreams for freedom
What would you do
If asked to make the ultimate sacrifice

Would you think about all them people
Who gave up everything they had.
Would you think about all them War Vets
And would you start to feel bad

Freedom isn't free
It costs folks like you and me
And if we don't all chip in
We'll never pay that bill
Freedom isn't free
No, there's a hefty fuckin' fee.
And if you don't throw in your buck 'o five
Who will?

What would you do
If someone told you to fight for freedom.
Would you answer the call
Or run away like a little pussy
'Cause the only reason that you're here.
Is 'cause folks died for you in the past
So maybe now it's your turn
To die kicking some ass

Freedom isn't free
It costs folks like you and me
And if we don't all chip in
We'll never pay that bill
Freedom isn't free
Now there's a have to hook'in fee
And if you don't throw in your buck 'o five
Who will?

You don't throw in your buck 'o five. Who will?
Oooh buck 'o five
Freedom costs a buck 'o five

[quandry]

Seriously QUANDRY - do yourself a huge favour and go listen to SPIRITUALS by "FLANGER.
You'd never believe it was digitally reconstructed out of live musician jam sessions except for some wigged out parts that do really wierd things (in a cool way) with MS20 processing / formant shifting and some other clever glitched over (very subtle glitched over) guitar passages and the like.
The material sounds like it was recorded in 1930 or something.
Beautifully produced I might add and great musicianship too boot.
Then again it's been reconstructed by too muso's and it isn't "smooth jazz" or trying to be tragically hip either.
Obviously a labour of love when you here the end results that's for sure.

will do, off to the itunes music store again, sounds fun, looking forward to it. I dig your explanation of your process--Live is such a fun way to take some audio and totally play with it like it is dough.

[ILTK]

WHAT IS A LOOP ?

Good question. In the context of Pulsoc vs. ILTK and bOuncy I take it to mean any sample not originated by the tunesmith. In my specific case, it refers to drum breaks, one shots, and recordings of people playing instruments or making sounds. Remember, any form of synthesis is "looping" a sample of a waveform - but I won't take the argument to that level.

Figuring out how to make an Amen break sound fresh is tougher these days than writing a symphony. (exaggeration)

In my experience, learning how to place and manipulate sampled sounds has taught me a great deal about overall composition, texture, sound placement, mixing, etc. It has also stimulated my creativity and reach. Using some samples has made me cope with musical challenges I probably would not have encountered had I isolated my music-making to strictly doing everything myself.

At the same time I have learned how to use synthesis to construct sounds for the same kinds of purposes. Not incredibly well, but well enough to go from idea(s) to finished track.

And while ILTK and bOuncy feel, prima facie, their theory must be true because it is common sense - well, the road to knowledge is littered with the broken theories of "common sense." Which is why science asks for "evidence" to "support" a "hypothesis", and why we no longer believe the sun revolves around the earth.

Again, I posit to bOuncy and ILTK - show us your evidence of how learned you are - at the least it will "support" your hypothesis instead of making you sound like a pair of academic wind-bags with no dirt under your nails.

So you'r saying that the sentence:

"Using loops deprives you of the knowledge you could gain by creating them yourself"

Is false?

Because looking back, that's all I wrote, or are you just including me because I called you on your little ad hominem tantrum a while back?

[djadonis206]

Oh boy here we go again

I have to say though that saying

"Using loops deprives you of the knowledge you could gain by creating them yourself" is common sense is little pretentious

Using loops means only one thing, you're using loops. that's all

[pulsoc]

So you'r saying that the sentence:

"Using loops deprives you of the knowledge you could gain by creating them yourself"

Is false?

Because looking back, that's all I wrote, or are you just including me because I called you on your little ad hominem tantrum a while back?

Ok, I agree. I would add to your supposition, "NOT using loops deprives you of the knowledge you could gain by learning how to use them effectively as one of many tools in a sonic strategy."

And NOT responding to pedantic forum addicts who don't actually make anything deprives you of the ability to throw "ad hominem tantrums".

Last word goes to you sirs. I'm out.

[quandry]

Oh boy here we go again

I have to say though that saying

"Using loops deprives you of the knowledge you could gain by creating them yourself" is common sense is little pretentious

Using loops means only one thing, you're using loops. that's all

Though, as I've said before on this thread, I have no problems with using loops, the statement is not pretentious, and is hard to refute.

"Using loops means only one thing, you're using loops. that's all" is a bit too reductive. "Using loops" implies that you are "creating" music.

This opens up the question of what "creating" music is. Here is where people on this thread have differences, which is fine. To some, "creating" music is sampling vinyl and using pre-canned loops, and finding things that work together. To others it means recording with a band or group of musicians, to others it means building up your own song by yourself, playing each part yourself, maybe using loops you yourself created, or maybe not. to each their own.

I still agree that since we are talking about a process of "creating" music, there is more to be learned from playing each note of every part yourself than collaging together loops. Both take skill to make it sound good, and certainly doing it all yourself is more tedious and time consuming. But with the end goal being that of creating music, there is a lot to be said from learning how to play or program the different parts yourself, in that you can create parts that fit together harmoniously and really groove well with each other, as opposed to trying to find loops that fit together.

It certainly takes longer to get to this point, but to be able to make your own parts opens up endless possibilities and unleashes your own personal musical soul, and is less limiting than a stack of records and x number of sample cds. Using loops someone else made to "create" your music is like a collaboration with someone you can't interact with and gets no credits in the final product. Sure you can mangle and chop up and re-arrange the loop with Live (which is fun), but it's still not something you made, and it's not the same as interacting with the musician who made the loop. Loops can be a useful learning tool, is certainly quicker, and can often provide better results than doing it all yourself, but in some ways it is a shortcut to creating all of the parts yourself, and can shortcut the creative musical knowledge to be gained by playing the parts, which can really pay off in the long run in terms of composition, dynamics, and harmony.

[djadonis206]

It certainly takes longer to get to this point, but to be able to make your own parts opens up endless possibilities and unleashes your own personal musical soul, and is less limiting than a stack of records and x number of sample cds. Using loops someone else made to "create" your music is like a collaboration with someone you can't interact with and gets no credits in the final product. Sure you can mangle and chop up and re-arrange the loop with Live (which is fun), but it's still not something you made, and it's not the same as interacting with the musician who made the loop. Loops can be a useful learning tool, is certainly quicker, and can often provide better results than doing it all yourself, but in some ways it is a shortcut to creating all of the parts yourself, and can shortcut the creative musical knowledge to be gained by playing the parts, which can really pay off in the long run in terms of composition, dynamics, and harmony.

.

Good points - however I feel like I can express myself through digging through vinyl and using what I find to become mine - does that make sense?

Obviously I've learned a technique that works for me (there's that word learn I'm trying to stay away from)

So while I'm learning to sample, munipulate and congegate (?) others are learn to "create"

we're all in the same boat just on different sides of the ship

[quandry]

Good points - however I feel like I can express myself through digging through vinyl and using what I find to become mine - does that make sense?

Obviously I've learned a technique that works for me (there's that word learn I'm trying to stay away from)

So while I'm learning to sample, munipulate and congegate (?) others are learn to "create"

we're all in the same boat just on different sides of the ship

word, and if don't throw in your buck 'o five. Who will?

Freedom costs a buck 'o five

[dj superflat]

and thus peace was restored in the kingdom of good king robert and all slept soundly that nite. (having reconciled loopers and loopless, we now have to get east and west coasts to shake hands, spurs to lie down with mavericks, etc.)

[Angstrom]

my input

Amon Tobin

lots of loops cut up

sounds good to me. sounds like something Original to me

as far as I'm concernerned that's it covered