MPC vs All softwares mega stellar battle intergalactica!!

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
jerry123
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Post by jerry123 » Thu May 25, 2006 8:22 pm

An MPC2000XL has a resolution of 96ppqn. That is just silly. Maybe that has something to do with it's playbility though. Cubase SX3 has a resolution of over 2 million ppqn. Thus, the timing of the MPC can be considered ancient spec-wise, but it does sound better for some reason.

noisetonepause
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Re: there is a .....

Post by noisetonepause » Thu May 25, 2006 8:56 pm

Jackal and Hyde wrote:Not that it matters, but an MPC will always be more on time because it has an internal crystal that keeps its timing, so it is 100% accurate always. A Computer does not have this and (when your really splitting hairs) also has many different voltage changes running on a motherboard/memory running different software/OS that would further make it only 99.999999% accurate. An MPC would win this test any day. Ask any electrician thats also a musician.
Live syncs its MIDI clock to the audio clock of the soundcard you use (which BTW means if you sync your soundcard digitally to your band mate's card you'll have perfect MIDI sync, long as you can hit your spacebar on the one), so any jitter you're getting is nowhere near audible range. This is snake oil.
Suit #1: I mean, have you got any insight as to why a bright boy like this would jeopardize the lives of millions?
Suit #2: No, sir, he says he does this sort of thing for fun.

leisuremuffin
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Re: there is a .....

Post by leisuremuffin » Thu May 25, 2006 10:06 pm

Jackal and Hyde wrote:
deckme(N)tal wrote:software sequencer that has got midi timing precise as hardware (mpc)?
or is it possible? in your experience...
no soft vs hard wars...i just get proves everyday that midi timing in software is always a little bit off...

Not that it matters, but an MPC will always be more on time because it has an internal crystal that keeps its timing, so it is 100% accurate always. A Computer does not have this and (when your really splitting hairs) also has many different voltage changes running on a motherboard/memory running different software/OS that would further make it only 99.999999% accurate. An MPC would win this test any day. Ask any electrician thats also a musician.

I'm a musician, not an electrician.

I, like 99.9999999% of humanity, can't hear the difference in timing if it exists.

straight 16th notes played by the mpc vs. straight 16ths played by live will sound the same to me.



.lm.
TimeableFloat ???S?e?n?d?I?n?f?o

Sales Dude McBoob
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Re: there is a .....

Post by Sales Dude McBoob » Thu May 25, 2006 10:21 pm

leisuremuffin wrote:
Jackal and Hyde wrote:
deckme(N)tal wrote:software sequencer that has got midi timing precise as hardware (mpc)?
or is it possible? in your experience...
no soft vs hard wars...i just get proves everyday that midi timing in software is always a little bit off...

Not that it matters, but an MPC will always be more on time because it has an internal crystal that keeps its timing, so it is 100% accurate always. A Computer does not have this and (when your really splitting hairs) also has many different voltage changes running on a motherboard/memory running different software/OS that would further make it only 99.999999% accurate. An MPC would win this test any day. Ask any electrician thats also a musician.

I'm a musician, not an electrician.

I, like 99.9999999% of humanity, can't hear the difference in timing if it exists.

straight 16th notes played by the mpc vs. straight 16ths played by live will sound the same to me.



.lm.
Muff.. you're sounding like an SAE instructor again. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but you're presenting your facts and you're saying that your facts are the real facts and my facts are crap. Or 'snake oil', as the rather grumpy Paws put it.

Let me just restate my facts. I sell these machines. I talk to hundreds of users of these machines every year. I have heard this again and again from experienced musicians and composers that the MPC has a special quality, and they all agree it's the sequencing engine that is scratching the itch that no other box or bianary can touch.

When I hear about the same good experience from so many different people, then I know there IS something happening here that IS special. You can yammer away all day about technical hoo-haw, but at the end of the day the musician banging on his MPC is more inspired than the one who isn't.

leisuremuffin
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Post by leisuremuffin » Thu May 25, 2006 10:40 pm

let me clarify.

I love the mpc2000. it is unique and special. I've loved and used one for 6 years now. But what makes it more insiring is the workflow, not that the timing is somehow tighter. I'm sorry, but i think that that's a bunch of horseshit. More fun sometimes, yes. Faster sometimes, yes. Better timing, no.


.lm.
TimeableFloat ???S?e?n?d?I?n?f?o

leisuremuffin
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Post by leisuremuffin » Thu May 25, 2006 10:42 pm

annnnnnd yes, i did write the curriculum for the mpc2000 class at SAENY as well as teach it. And yes, I hate SAE's guts now. they are a fucking scam.



.lm.
TimeableFloat ???S?e?n?d?I?n?f?o

Jackal and Hyde
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Post by Jackal and Hyde » Thu May 25, 2006 11:01 pm

leisuremuffin wrote:annnnnnd yes, i did write the curriculum for the mpc2000 class" "More fun sometimes, yes. Faster sometimes, yes. Better timing, no."



.lm.

Thank god you werent teaching a course for electricians. They'd all be killing themselves on the job. lol


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_oscillator







.

leisuremuffin
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Post by leisuremuffin » Thu May 25, 2006 11:06 pm

jesus christ. im saying it's not about the timing thing.

go ahead, set up the blind taste test.

if someone here can tell the accurately tell the difference between straight 16th notes on an mpc and straight 16th notes in live i will eat my hat and post a photo of myself eating it. Gotta have 3 files or something though. i won't eat my hat on a lucky coinflip.

i'm dead serious.

.lm.
TimeableFloat ???S?e?n?d?I?n?f?o

jerry123
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Post by jerry123 » Thu May 25, 2006 11:33 pm

Simply put, an MPC is rediculously in-accurate at only 96 ppqn.

mike holiday
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Post by mike holiday » Thu May 25, 2006 11:44 pm

so maybe the ? is reversersed..

..is the mpc's inaccurate timing what makes people love it??

i'd try to create the blind test
but as i'v sold my mpc 2k (and never ever missed it) i can't!

(that makes me a happy ex-owner..used it, loved it, sold it, never missed it!)
dual 1.8 G4 10.4.9 w/768 ram & A&H xone 3D


"I ain't often right but I've never been wrong"

louZ
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Re: A certain something...

Post by louZ » Thu May 25, 2006 11:47 pm

beale wrote:There is something about the timing of an MPC. it's much more noticable as you add swing to a beat. They have signature feel to them. A long time ago I had a file that I could import into Logic so I could impose an MPC's feel on a track. I'll try to find it and post it here.
just uploaded them for yall to enjoy!

MPC Midi Template
http://members.chello.nl/ja.degroot/MPC%20Template.rar

MPC-3000 Grooves for GURU
http://members.chello.nl/ja.degroot/MPC ... rooves.zip

noisetonepause
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Post by noisetonepause » Fri May 26, 2006 1:40 am

Jackal and Hyde wrote:
leisuremuffin wrote:annnnnnd yes, i did write the curriculum for the mpc2000 class" "More fun sometimes, yes. Faster sometimes, yes. Better timing, no."



.lm.

Thank god you werent teaching a course for electricians. They'd all be killing themselves on the job. lol


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_oscillator







.
You're seriously saying that the clock in a sequencer from the mid nineties based on a fucking dual Pentium 286 processor is more accurate than the clock in a modern soundcard? Whilst this is obviously possible, in that I've done no hands-on research and am a nought but a philology student when the sun's out and it's not July, I have to ask if you happen to be in the market for a bridge? I've got a big red once for sale, sitting right in San Francisco, ready for use. It's yours for a song!

Anyways, set up the blind test. I'm game.
Suit #1: I mean, have you got any insight as to why a bright boy like this would jeopardize the lives of millions?
Suit #2: No, sir, he says he does this sort of thing for fun.

polygonskull
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Post by polygonskull » Fri May 26, 2006 8:57 am

you can get that "mpc" feel by leaving in loose drum hits neat the end of a slice of a drumloop in a beat slicer like phatmatik. or by adjusting the markers so they fall just ahead of some of the hits... i think the way some of the samples and breaks are chopped up and have leftovers in the mpc process give it that feel...

deckme(N)tal
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Post by deckme(N)tal » Fri May 26, 2006 10:17 am

polygonskull wrote:you can get that "mpc" feel by leaving in loose drum hits neat the end of a slice of a drumloop in a beat slicer like phatmatik. or by adjusting the markers so they fall just ahead of some of the hits... i think the way some of the samples and breaks are chopped up and have leftovers in the mpc process give it that feel...
perhaps in the old akai 950 days...but with my mpc 1000 i get the same feeling with perfectly trimmed wave files for pro-libraries...
trust me is the sequencer...

Nixon
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Post by Nixon » Fri May 26, 2006 1:04 pm

It's an instrument. You can't imitate the "feel" of an instrument by calculating timing etc. > it's NOT about the technical specs. If you feel you can time great using an mpc, use an mpc.
macbook 2Ghz 2GB, uc33, bcf2000, triggerfinger, monomachine, live 5.2/6.0.1, ozone 3, pure data, ultralite,
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