I read this in a Nostradomus Manuscript:

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
quandry
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Post by quandry » Thu May 25, 2006 11:11 pm

Michael-SW wrote:So, Live hasn't got a ultra stable reputation any more. They used to have it. Don't have it NOW.

Who cares if some versions they released years ago were ultra stable? It takes a long time to build a reputation, but it can be ruined very quickly.

The reason they have a one year version cycle is that they want more money.
I care, because I still use them and they work great!!!
Dell Studio XPS 8100 Windows 7 64-bit, 10 GB RAM. RME Multiface, Avalon U5 & M5, Distressor, Filter Factory, UC33e, BCR-2000, FCB1010, K-Station, Hr 824 & H120 sub, EZ Bus, V-Drums, DrumKat EZ, basses, guitars, pedals... http://www.ryan-hughes.net

louZ
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Post by louZ » Fri May 26, 2006 12:08 am

Michael-SW wrote:So, Live hasn't got a ultra stable reputation any more. They used to have it. Don't have it NOW.

Who cares if some versions they released years ago were ultra stable? It takes a long time to build a reputation, but it can be ruined very quickly.

The reason they have a one year version cycle is that they want more money.
At the end of the day they are a company like any other and they need to make a profit.

D DAS
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Post by D DAS » Fri May 26, 2006 12:15 am

oh my,,,nostradamus ,

june 6 th,,,,that is 6 6 6

ableton dropping the beta bomb

666,,oh no, what if you read it wrong, what if those damn russians are dropping the bomb. everyone panic!!!!! the end of the world is on 6 6 6

nostradamus help us

b0unce
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Post by b0unce » Fri May 26, 2006 1:41 am

louZ wrote:At the end of the day they are a company like any other and they need to make a profit.
at the end of the day its not ultra-stable.

quandry
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Post by quandry » Fri May 26, 2006 1:51 am

at the end of the day they tried to overhaul the whole program and add a ton of feature request from users too fast--it's hard to fault them for trying, they just didn't give themselves enough time, and seemingly had a self-imposed deadline. How many other software companies interact and listen to their userbase so much, and work countless hours with little sleep to try and implement a ton of features into their program? How many other music software programs started as two musicians/performers wanting to make a performance software, then eventually growing it to this in about 6 years? ProTools, Cubase, Logic, etc. have all been around much longer, started as more overtly commercial interests in mind (and bigger staffs), and their programmers don't seem to interact nearly as much with users.

Whine all you want, but none of us would even be here arguing if we didn't like Live and see a lot of potential in it. All I can say is that if you have problems with 5, make sure your system and vst are solid, as there are people performing on both platforms with Live 5 with no problems. Report bugs if you feel you have found them--Ableton listens and works to get things right. If all else fails use a previous version, as all are very stable. Sure, 5 wasn't as stable as it should've been, it was rushed, but if you really hated it that much you wouldn't be here, you'd be using whatever other software that suited you better. I think we can all agree that we hope 6 is better, more stable, and that they take the time they need to get it right.
Dell Studio XPS 8100 Windows 7 64-bit, 10 GB RAM. RME Multiface, Avalon U5 & M5, Distressor, Filter Factory, UC33e, BCR-2000, FCB1010, K-Station, Hr 824 & H120 sub, EZ Bus, V-Drums, DrumKat EZ, basses, guitars, pedals... http://www.ryan-hughes.net

b0unce
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Post by b0unce » Fri May 26, 2006 1:56 am

oh. my. god (pbuh).

forge
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Post by forge » Fri May 26, 2006 3:05 am

hoffman2k wrote:If nostradamus said it.... Then it'll be 6 june :wink:
HAH! my birthday!

now that would be a good pressie!

forge
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Post by forge » Fri May 26, 2006 3:09 am

hoffman2k wrote:
quandry wrote:not to rain on parades, but I seem to remember news articles hyping the new version prior to any betas--haven't seen any hype articles here yet....
Yeah. I've been wondering about that too.
Either they learned their lesson. Or the beta-cycle is starting later then like in the past 2 years.
last year the 1st beta thread in the forum was june 19

forge
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Post by forge » Fri May 26, 2006 3:20 am

D DAS wrote:oh my,,,nostradamus ,

june 6 th,,,,that is 6 6 6

ableton dropping the beta bomb

666,,oh no, what if you read it wrong, what if those damn russians are dropping the bomb. everyone panic!!!!! the end of the world is on 6 6 6

nostradamus help us
actually I heard on the radio they recently discovered due to a translation issue the number of the beast is actually 616

forge
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Post by forge » Fri May 26, 2006 3:28 am

quandry wrote:at the end of the day they tried to overhaul the whole program and add a ton of feature request from users too fast--it's hard to fault them for trying, they just didn't give themselves enough time, and seemingly had a self-imposed deadline. How many other software companies interact and listen to their userbase so much, and work countless hours with little sleep to try and implement a ton of features into their program? How many other music software programs started as two musicians/performers wanting to make a performance software, then eventually growing it to this in about 6 years? ProTools, Cubase, Logic, etc. have all been around much longer, started as more overtly commercial interests in mind (and bigger staffs), and their programmers don't seem to interact nearly as much with users.

Whine all you want, but none of us would even be here arguing if we didn't like Live and see a lot of potential in it. All I can say is that if you have problems with 5, make sure your system and vst are solid, as there are people performing on both platforms with Live 5 with no problems. Report bugs if you feel you have found them--Ableton listens and works to get things right. If all else fails use a previous version, as all are very stable. Sure, 5 wasn't as stable as it should've been, it was rushed, but if you really hated it that much you wouldn't be here, you'd be using whatever other software that suited you better. I think we can all agree that we hope 6 is better, more stable, and that they take the time they need to get it right.
thing is ryan, I'm not sure it is really because they rushed it or did it too fast

by the end of the last beta I seem to remember about 2 weeks where I had nothing to report and the beta forum was definitely alot quieter - so I dont know if it's because so many new users jumped on board when 5 came out, or some problems didnt show their face right away, or if they are talking about long term issues like the arrange sluggishness bug, or even just not enough people reported bugs, but I definitely dont think they just chucked it out without having the vast majority of the beta testers stable with it.

there were alot of beta testers (the first group being limited to 500 - that alone is a fair chunk of different setups to test on)

and you must admit a CRAPLOAD of new users came on board after the L5 release - this forum was very clear testament - I remember we got a pretty big influx after 4 but there were heaps more after 5.

so it's totally possible alot of these complaints came well after the beta phase and final release

I agree it's mostly down to the shedload of new features they put in though, but I dont necessarily think delaying the beta phase of 6 would be the thing that made it more "stable"

roby
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Post by roby » Fri May 26, 2006 5:04 am

D DAS wrote:oh my,,,nostradamus ,

june 6 th,,,,that is 6 6 6

ableton dropping the beta bomb

666,,oh no, what if you read it wrong, what if those damn russians are dropping the bomb. everyone panic!!!!! the end of the world is on 6 6 6

nostradamus help us
i wonder if they'll Slayer as a feature artist on their website :twisted: :D

b0unce
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Post by b0unce » Fri May 26, 2006 9:27 am

forge wrote:thing is ryan, I'm not sure it is really because they rushed it or did it too fast

by the end of the last beta I seem to remember about 2 weeks where I had nothing to report and the beta forum was definitely alot quieter - so I dont know if it's because so many new users jumped on board when 5 came out, or some problems didnt show their face right away, or if they are talking about long term issues like the arrange sluggishness bug, or even just not enough people reported bugs, but I definitely dont think they just chucked it out without having the vast majority of the beta testers stable with it.

there were alot of beta testers (the first group being limited to 500 - that alone is a fair chunk of different setups to test on)

and you must admit a CRAPLOAD of new users came on board after the L5 release - this forum was very clear testament - I remember we got a pretty big influx after 4 but there were heaps more after 5.

so it's totally possible alot of these complaints came well after the beta phase and final release

I agree it's mostly down to the shedload of new features they put in though, but I dont necessarily think delaying the beta phase of 6 would be the thing that made it more "stable"
hi forge,
glad to see you can call a spade a spade.

I think it would be difficult to come to a conclusion on what effect the influx of new live 5 users (on the forum) had on the general stability of live 5. I think this because I think forum traffic, and problematic software are directly proportioned to one another. So, which came first - the problems or the traffic ?

I believe the problems came first.

live 5 didnt level out for me until 5.2, and a new machine with a new interface. I hopped on at live 4, and was an early adopter of live 5. I waited for nearly a fuckin year for live 5 to stabilise. it was nothing but annoying problem after problem, completely stunting the workflow that live 4 had created because live 5 wouldnt work as it should. Now I'm a technical person, I know my pc inside out, I trouble-shot and I emailed support meticulously for a couple of months until the shoulder shrugging of ableton support wore me the fuck out, and I stopped beta testing a product I paid around 500 clams for. I've been through all the possiblities of what was causing the problems, plus i saw first hand how live 5 performed on my machine with each update - and the way it worked out for me was a systematic assassination of my working methods with each update, until 5.2 and my hardware changes. Its not something I was happy about, throwing more horsepower at something to make butchered code work smoothly. But I digress, at least I'm out of the woods.

i was pleased with the amount of time they took to beta 5.2 , i hope they take a good length of time to beta 6. If they fuck me again with live 6, well...what shread of a romantic vision I have of ableton will be torched.

sqook
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Post by sqook » Fri May 26, 2006 9:57 am

Like nostradamus, I have a feeling that your predicitions will not come true. However, when similar events transpire (like an ableton email announcing the actual date or something), everyone will use this as definitive "proof" of your future-sensing abliities. ;)

forge
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Post by forge » Fri May 26, 2006 11:45 am

b0unce wrote: hi forge,
glad to see you can call a spade a spade.

I think it would be difficult to come to a conclusion on what effect the influx of new live 5 users (on the forum) had on the general stability of live 5. I think this because I think forum traffic, and problematic software are directly proportioned to one another. So, which came first - the problems or the traffic ?

I believe the problems came first.
.
not enitrely sure what you mean here - especially about calling a spade a spade.

No I'm not saying that forum traffic is somehow mystically causing voodoo bugs in the program, rather that more bugs may have been reported after release as alot more people may have bought L5 after it's release, which is also when the beta testing phases are over.

hoffman2k
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Post by hoffman2k » Fri May 26, 2006 1:39 pm

Live 6.....
They're doing a sale on Live 5 till the 31st of may.
Which will be followed by the Live 6 announcement (to kick off the grace period)

Beta will arrive somewhere between 14-16 june
6 june still sounds right for the announcement though ;)
They should send out the newsletter around 06:06:06 AM :lol:

Just a wild guess

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