PROGRAM/BANK change messages not working!

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
Needs2Know
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PROGRAM/BANK change messages not working!

Post by Needs2Know » Thu Jun 29, 2006 6:27 am

Just got the impOSCer yeh! Its not a virus, but its a good substitue for now.

Hey I know I've posted this before, and someone else just posted a topic not to long ago but i'm really stuck on this simple problem.

All night i've been trying to get my sound modules to accept program/bank change values from LIVE but nothing is happaning. I'm using a midi sport 2x2 and all other midi seems to work just fine. is there a trick to this??

I tried the EMX first and now im going to a more simpler sound module my Kstation. Its not working either. the midi runs just fine, just wont change programs.

I might add that I just reformatted my HD and only have one game installed on my system. But I remember trying this before and somehow I got it to work somewhat but I dont remember what I did. I probably did it by accedant or this whole thing might be tempermental and it just started to work all of a sudden.
LOGIC PRO 7.2 w/ G4 1.67 1.5G RAM . Mac OSX 10.4.8, LIVE 6.0, Virus TI Keyboard, Korg EMX1, AXIOM 25 and Keystation Pro 88 midi controllers, Midisport 2x2 midi interface, UltraLite audio interface and 1 Rode NT3 mic "check, check".

Johnisfaster
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Post by Johnisfaster » Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:17 am

are you aware that ableton only sends program change messages as you open the song?

just a question not trying to be a dic*
It was as if someone shook up a 6 foot can of blood soda and suddenly popped the top.

Needs2Know
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Post by Needs2Know » Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:40 am

i dont understand. only transmits while you change the song? no idea.
LOGIC PRO 7.2 w/ G4 1.67 1.5G RAM . Mac OSX 10.4.8, LIVE 6.0, Virus TI Keyboard, Korg EMX1, AXIOM 25 and Keystation Pro 88 midi controllers, Midisport 2x2 midi interface, UltraLite audio interface and 1 Rode NT3 mic "check, check".

Needs2Know
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Post by Needs2Know » Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:43 am

while ive been dicking around with this i descovered that i can record a midi take from my Kstation and then channel that midi data to the EMX and i can get it to change prog/bank info with ease. which makes me even more confused now. 8O
LOGIC PRO 7.2 w/ G4 1.67 1.5G RAM . Mac OSX 10.4.8, LIVE 6.0, Virus TI Keyboard, Korg EMX1, AXIOM 25 and Keystation Pro 88 midi controllers, Midisport 2x2 midi interface, UltraLite audio interface and 1 Rode NT3 mic "check, check".

Johnisfaster
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Post by Johnisfaster » Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:46 am

as far as I know program change message only sends when you're opening the song. it only sends once when you open the song. so you can't send anymore changes after that.

its something that may or may not be changed in live 6
It was as if someone shook up a 6 foot can of blood soda and suddenly popped the top.

Needs2Know
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Post by Needs2Know » Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:06 am

as far as I know program change message only sends when you're opening the song. it only sends once when you open the song. so you can't send anymore changes after that.

its something that may or may not be changed in live 6
i really dont get it. what "song" are you refering to? the LIVE project? or a song on a soud module? I have patterns on my sound modules(synths). those patterns are in sub banks 1 and 2. why can i get it to work sometimes and then sometimes it doesnt? This sucks man. I sure hope to GOD that its something I'm doing wrong and not LIVE. if it is LIVE they can eat shit and die for making a useless product.

oh and you know how above i could get a recorded midi loop from my kstation to program/bank change my EMX?, well its not working now :x
LOGIC PRO 7.2 w/ G4 1.67 1.5G RAM . Mac OSX 10.4.8, LIVE 6.0, Virus TI Keyboard, Korg EMX1, AXIOM 25 and Keystation Pro 88 midi controllers, Midisport 2x2 midi interface, UltraLite audio interface and 1 Rode NT3 mic "check, check".

Johnisfaster
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Post by Johnisfaster » Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:14 am

lets just say this man, live has very limited program change support. if you want to know all about what it does support then read the manual.

it will change your programs when you open the song, it will select all your pretty synth sounds and all that. but you can't send new program changes during a set.
It was as if someone shook up a 6 foot can of blood soda and suddenly popped the top.

planet_b
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Post by planet_b » Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:34 am

Johnisfaster wrote:as far as I know program change message only sends when you're opening the song. it only sends once when you open the song. so you can't send anymore changes after that.

its something that may or may not be changed in live 6
Well I don't think this is the case. In session mode, every clip can have
program/bank-change's and it sends them every time the clip is launched.
I'd recall it works same way in arrangement mode (not sure thou,
it's been a while since I last needed the arrangement mode..) So program-
changes should be sent when the clip is started.

But for the original question, you should be aware that not every VSTi respond
to program change messages at all (they probably have some built in patch
management then). Sometimes trying out selecting banks/sub-banks makes
difference, patch numbers might begin from 0 or 1 and so on.

edit: oh you were trying to send them to external synths. You might need
to see their manuals whether they need some setting to accept program
changes. Maybe check with some other sequencer if it works from there.. ?

Needs2Know
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Post by Needs2Know » Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:43 am

LOL. dude thanks for trying to help. BUT, 2 things:

1) where in the manual does it talk about this? ive looked through it and can not find detailed description on my problem. there is one section Entitled "Bank and Program Change" 8.3.2 and it is one small paragraph giving a basic description of how it SHOULD work.


2) i've asked you repeatedly what you mean by "song" and you have not answered. do you mean "track"?, as in the "midi track" ? ive tried sliding the loop into another midi track and sometimes i can get it to work. when its working i can sit there and keep changing the bank, subbank, and program all day and it works perfectly, UNTIL i click on another midi loop which is in another track. then i go back to the track and clip that WAS working only to find that it wont work anymore. W! T! Fuko! Duko!?

this is CRAZY YO!
LOGIC PRO 7.2 w/ G4 1.67 1.5G RAM . Mac OSX 10.4.8, LIVE 6.0, Virus TI Keyboard, Korg EMX1, AXIOM 25 and Keystation Pro 88 midi controllers, Midisport 2x2 midi interface, UltraLite audio interface and 1 Rode NT3 mic "check, check".

Johnisfaster
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Post by Johnisfaster » Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:06 am

by song I mean session.
It was as if someone shook up a 6 foot can of blood soda and suddenly popped the top.

Needs2Know
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Post by Needs2Know » Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:21 am

planet_b -

So it works for you then? how do you set it up? like im trying to set up my Live set so that when I click down each "scene" the program changes on the appropriate synths. right now i've gotn midi track 7 to change to the corresponding program on the synth. but the track in midi track 7 is not part of the session. and i cant mute a midi track so what do i do?
LOGIC PRO 7.2 w/ G4 1.67 1.5G RAM . Mac OSX 10.4.8, LIVE 6.0, Virus TI Keyboard, Korg EMX1, AXIOM 25 and Keystation Pro 88 midi controllers, Midisport 2x2 midi interface, UltraLite audio interface and 1 Rode NT3 mic "check, check".

amigo
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Post by amigo » Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:24 am

I know this doesn't answer your original question but it doesn't take up any more resources to create another midi track to play the different voice on your sound module.

amigo

Johnisfaster
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Post by Johnisfaster » Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:27 am

I guess I should shut up, I'm apparently just want to drunk to help you
It was as if someone shook up a 6 foot can of blood soda and suddenly popped the top.

Needs2Know
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Post by Needs2Know » Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:54 am

ok im getting closer:
I double clicked in an empty session slot under Track 7(the one that works)thereby creating a new but blank clip.
I thereby change the program in the empty clips sequencealy from top to bottom under track 7. I'm able to click on the "scene row" now which results on the other clips in that row(scene) to change appropriately.

The only problem is, i have to assign the output to the same midi channel which is channel 1. if i change this channel to any other channel it doesnt send program/bank change info.

ANYONE ELSE FIND THIS WEIRD?
LOGIC PRO 7.2 w/ G4 1.67 1.5G RAM . Mac OSX 10.4.8, LIVE 6.0, Virus TI Keyboard, Korg EMX1, AXIOM 25 and Keystation Pro 88 midi controllers, Midisport 2x2 midi interface, UltraLite audio interface and 1 Rode NT3 mic "check, check".

Needs2Know
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Post by Needs2Know » Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:57 am

Johnisfaster

LOL, this is deffinately a question for the coffee drinkers. ive been wanting to drink beer all night but i know if i do my brain will turn to mush :?
LOGIC PRO 7.2 w/ G4 1.67 1.5G RAM . Mac OSX 10.4.8, LIVE 6.0, Virus TI Keyboard, Korg EMX1, AXIOM 25 and Keystation Pro 88 midi controllers, Midisport 2x2 midi interface, UltraLite audio interface and 1 Rode NT3 mic "check, check".

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