ableton's unfair copy protection system

darthstephen · Post by **darthstephen** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:52 pm

Johnisfaster wrote:I thought of the perfect analogy for this problem. and it's not a funny one like the milk one.

some cities have laws about cruising.(the act of driving around and around... you know... cruising) and in areas that have these laws you're only allowed to pass by a certain point ever so often without being suspected of cruising and then you get a ticket. my sister went to the store once and then come home and realised she had to go to the store again. she got pulled over and they let her off with a warning.(so my sister is playing stephen... got pulled over and let off with a warning) so she doesn't drive back and forth on that stip too many times anymore. it's silly but you just gotta follow those rules to keep from being pulled over. but if she just decided to go back and forth all the time then she should expect to get pulled over repeatedly because thats the law.

you can only pass this point so many times before you're suspected to be cruising. you're only allowed to unlock live so many times before youre suspected of illegal activity. so if you keep doing it, then expect to get pulled over now and then.

yes...but, innocent until proven guilty in most civilized places. on that level, i am not worried. i use live on one computer. never unlocked it on any other computer, ever. don't need to. you and ableton can both suspect me of whatever you like. they can tell. it'd be nice if they'd just be up front with me, let me know they know i'm not a crook. might help to not feel suspected.

darthstephen · Post by **darthstephen** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:56 pm

AdamJay wrote:someone call the WAAAAAHHmbulance.

johnisfaster makes some great points.
If you are going to act shady and ask for an unlock once a month, then you shouldn't have a problem using cracks.

Personally, i would have cut you off at about 8 unlocks, but thats probably why i don't work for Ableton.

did you read this?
because i ask to unlock a product i bought once a month, that automatically means i use cracks or i shouldn't have a problem with cracked software. that's ridiculous. glad you don't work for ableton.

darthstephen · Post by **darthstephen** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:59 pm

Rx wrote:
darthstephen wrote:do you actually have a comment on this or why ableton should or shouldn't look at these options? maybe a personal preference? or do you just want to re-iterate the same thing that was said 13 pages ago?
no comment whatsoever as i, like the most people, don't waste time reformatting my computer monthly. and i didn't bother reading the rest of the thread, as i can imagine what the responses were. i've just never read of such an absurd complaint before. there's a monty python skit in here somewhere.

have you ever heard of people debating copy protection? quit deflecting. there are two other threads questioning ableton's copy protection at the moment not started by me.

darthstephen · Post by **darthstephen** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:01 pm

dj donnyman wrote:Darthstephen, quit your moaning and buy yourself a license, we all know you are really just a frustrated cracker who has been sussed

i guess the easiest way is just to criminalize someone without knowing the facts.

darthstephen · Post by **darthstephen** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:17 pm

this is so much fun.
i guess i can understand the response here. it's like belonging to a gang, owning a particular software. you guys belong to the ableton gang. i bet if i went to the native instruments forum and complained about this copy protection, the people there would be like...yeah, ableton totally blows. it's like calling the fox news network up and telling them republicans are pigs. i mean, republicans are pigs, but fox and their audience are so comforted by a gang-like single-mindedness it would take a nuclear bomb to wake them up. probably that wouldn't help either. i guess it has to happen to people, personally. at that point minds change. i've not met a single family that was pro life and lost a daughter to a back alley abortion, that hasn't become pro choice. i never joined the ableton gang just cause i bought the software. and i'll always be looking out for an individual's rights no matter how ridiculous the circumstance.

darthstephen · Post by **darthstephen** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 4:05 pm

i just realized that i should probably not complain until there is really a problem. so far ableton has done nothing but cater to my needs. they have been really friendly, despite my demeanor. i thank them for that and will try harder to deal with my compulsive behaviors. my apologies. copy protection is a good topic of discussion. but ableton is a good company with a good product and they have shown themselves as human more than i've given them credit for.

forgie · Post by **forgie** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 4:21 pm

Well that's the ridiculous thing really.

If I were Ableton (I'm in software/electronic engineering myself) I would've told you that you can't keep chewing through unlocks every 2 months. I don't quite understand why, technically, you need to keep unlocking, since I thought it'd be related to your hardware, and wouldn't change even if you re-installed your OS.

I'm a very open minded person. I have political views that some people would view as radical. I believe "human" customer service is incredibly important in the software/computer industry. With all that said, I would not be as lenient as Ableton to your plight. To them, you're some guy emailing them all the time getting a whole lot of unlocks that could be using them illegitimately. So count yourself lucky. I don't actually understand the full technical implications of the unlocking process, so I don't know what the go is insofar as what you can and can't do with an 'unlock'.

What copy protection would you propose that would be as effective at eliminating piracy as the current scheme? (no dongles!)

Rx · Post by Rx » Sat Jul 08, 2006 7:39 pm

darthstephen wrote:have you ever heard of people debating copy protection? quit deflecting. there are two other threads questioning ableton's copy protection at the moment not started by me.

debating is one thing, and there are legitimate issues regarding copy protection to be discussed. being the one in a million user who has a need completely different than the average user is something else entirely. i assume you've figured out that what works best for the masses is the approach taken? i doubt a car manufacturer would change their policy for a driver who refused to shift past 2nd gear. they would service the car under their regular warranty but they certainly would not consider changing their warranty for this one person.

you seem to have come to your senses in some fashion tho. the real question is this: how much fun do you have making music?

Johnisfaster · Post by **Johnisfaster** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 8:22 pm

I never thought you're integrity was in question stephen, I tend to think if someone says they are being a good boy then they are (I trust people, it's weird)
but I have been trying to shed some light on the subject in a way that maybe you haven't considered and maybe give you some new perspective on the issue. a person doesn't have to be truely suspected of a crime to be subject to the rules. the rules say you can't unlock that often (it's a protection rule due to the mass amount of crackers and people who sell their software) it sucks but thats the rule. end of story. END OF STORY. say it again END OF STORY.

but it seems you're just gonna be upset about it.

so I'm done with it really. I was simply trying to help.

knock yourself out with whatever it is you're gonna do.
I'd rather choke on my own tongue than go over this again.

Lo-Fi Massahkah · Post by **Lo-Fi Massahkah** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 8:31 pm

You've sure been increasing your post count, darthstephen...
Cudos!

/Mikael

fraq · Post by **fraq** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 12:19 am

darthstephen wrote: you guys belong to the ableton gang.

Rule number one; do not talk about the Ableton gang

Johnisfaster · Post by **Johnisfaster** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 4:44 am

rule number two. YOU DO NOT TALK ABOUT ABLETON GANG.

DeadlyKungFu · Post by **DeadlyKungFu** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 5:11 am

A guy who tried Live for the first time, his ass was a wad of cookie dough. After a few weeks, he was carved out of wood.

darthstephen · Post by **darthstephen** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 6:21 am

so...and this is really funny,

i never bought that copy of ghost i had reserved at the local bookstore. i know, it's just pitiful. and i was just itching for a fresh install of windows tonight. a few weeks ago i did an image of my drive using a free program called "driveimage xml". it works as a plugin with bartpe. so i'm sitting on this image and drinking and i just can't control myself. i give it a try, boot from bart pe and load the 7gb image overwriting my current stable os. because i just need to know if it works...it does. fantastically, actually. a little slower than ghost, but very reliable. all authorizations remain working, windows updates no problem, everything appears perfect over an hour or so of testing. so here is the free solution for drive backup on the windows platform. just thought i'd share some positive info for people looking to image their hard drives for safe keeping. off to drink more...

djshiva · Post by **djshiva** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 6:30 am

darthstephen wrote:so...and this is really funny,

i never bought that copy of ghost i had reserved at the local bookstore. i know, it's just pitiful. and i was just itching for a fresh install of windows tonight. a few weeks ago i did an image of my drive using a free program called "driveimage xml". it works as a plugin with bartpe. so i'm sitting on this image and drinking and i just can't control myself. i give it a try, boot from bart pe and load the 7gb image overwriting my current stable os. because i just need to know if it works...it does. fantastically, actually. a little slower than ghost, but very reliable. all authorizations remain working, windows updates no problem, everything appears perfect over an hour or so of testing. so here is the free solution for drive backup on the windows platform. just thought i'd share some positive info for people looking to image their hard drives for safe keeping. off to drink more...

well...i'm glad that worked for you.

but man...you are kinda worrying me. sounds very Obssessive-Complusive. and i mean that in the clinical sense, not a sarcastic sense...