ableton's unfair copy protection system

darthstephen · Post by **darthstephen** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:52 pm

i hate ableton's copy protection system. as a paying customer who has had downtime, nervousness, fustration, and anxiety over unlocking ableton on the same computer...the only computer i own several times in the last 7 or 8 months, i feel it is just to start a thread pertaining to distaste for a completely unfair copy protection system. i understand the need for copy protection and i even understand challenge/response systems. BUT...other companies such as cycling 74 and db audioware either give someone an unlock code for their specific computer which would not work on another computer or, at the very least, offer an automated or 24/7 system for unlocking a product and actually provide reasonable service for their paying customers. neither cycling 74 nor db audioware are big companies with more resources than ableton, and as far as i know their copy protection works very well. $500 for software and none of that goes to convenient and reliable unlock functions for paying customers. it's just ridiculous. why can't ableton do the right thing and stop inconveniencing customers. i mean, they're across the planet from me and are off nights, weekends, and holidays. it's just neglect that they have not come up with a better system. anyway what do you really all feel? i want to see this change just as much as i want bug fixes and new features.

Clearscreen · Post by **Clearscreen** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:21 am

works fine for me. which part of getting an unlock code and activating immediately over the web doesn't work for you? you know you can activate on two different machines? and they have been known to allow more if you have good reason and get in touch with them.

whats the specific problem you've had? have you had to reinstall windows a lot or something? have you been in touch with the abes about it?

it could be worse, at least we don't have to have a dongle and put up with PACE or somethin

darthstephen · Post by **darthstephen** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:31 am

as i stated, the part that does not work for me is having the immediate online unlock expire and not having an unlock for my particular computer work regardless of os re-install... also, the fact that ableton does not want to let me know that they understand i use a single computer and that they understand i have NO INTENTION OF VIOLATING LICENSE AGREEMENT.
i have contacted ableton several times and have gotten additional unlocks, but sometimes heavily delayed over weekends. i actually lost a job once because of it and i have also gotten skepticism from there support staff. yes, i do re-install my os often. i like it that way, i am guilty. i used to be able to do it without feeling anxiety. like cleaning your house, you know. now i get emails like this...

Hello Stephen,

you already used 10 unlocks in approx. half a year, can you explain this?

Dom Wilms
ableton ag

i paid $500 for this software. i do not want to be interigated to use it.

that's my problem...in addition to clearly giving examples of companies that use challenge response in a convienient and appropriate way.

darthstephen · Post by **darthstephen** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:41 am

oh...by the way. even though you can load and unlock ableton on 2 computers (more if your really nice to them, so i hear) i guess i'm on there bad list because they only give me one unlock at a time now. which makes things even more inconvienient. so much for supporting software companies.

Hatchets McGee · Post by **Hatchets McGee** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:48 am

darthstephen wrote:yes, i do re-install my os often.

you could save yourself alot of bother by cloning your OS, clone it right after you installed the OS. then install all your stuff, tweak it to your liking - then clone that.

now anytime you want to re-install your os just revert back to your clone, either the bare bones clone or the one with your stuff installed.

this way you can keep your computers 'fingerprint'/identity .....and you wont need in excess of 10 authorisation codes. for someone who admits they re-install often, I dare say you are almost obliged to do this....well, going by common sense anyways.

you could use NORTON GHOST for pc, or SUPER DUPER for mac.

darthstephen · Post by **darthstephen** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:57 am

actually, buying norton ghost today is what prompted this thread. i spent 70 bucks because of ableton and i read that it doesn't work on this forum. i won't know until i get them to refresh my unlocks in the morning even though i'm crawling in my skin wanting to get this done now. don't think i'm stupid, man. ghost was just last on my list of software to buy and i frankly would have put it off longer if ableton didn't force me to spend this money. they probably own stock in norton...if it works.

Hatchets McGee · Post by **Hatchets McGee** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:03 am

man, your bitterness is over-the-top .... you should have got norton ghost sooner

darthstephen · Post by **darthstephen** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:13 am

55 views in less than a half hour. i'd say people are interested in this topic. maybe they are the ha ha ha i don't care that ableton treats me like a criminal-types. or maybe they have actually had problems too, but are too afraid to stray from the flock. just read the post, people. many companies use challenge/response systems. ableton is the only one i know of that has no problem with taking nights, weekends, and holidays off and leaving there supporting customers in the cold. i beg someone in ableton's staff to clarify this for me and give me an example of another company using challenge/response in this manner. being unavailable and interigating honest customers.

another challenge for the ableton people...if you are so comfortable with your copy protection system, why not post a warning with complete details of the system, your hours of operation, expiration of online unlocks, and the possible problems this might cause the many customers who drop $500 on your product. you should post all this right next to all the wonderful things ableton live does. or do you feel like this would cost you customers? i think it would. i would have not bought this product with a warning like that. i've contacted my my state representitive about a required warning. hell, if you can put warning stickers on art, why not make it required to educate people about copy protection. i want to start a campaign in my state because i believe in action and education and in not letting corporations manipulate customers.

darthstephen · Post by **darthstephen** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:16 am

Hatchets McGee wrote:man, your bitterness is over-the-top .... you should have got norton ghost sooner

sorry man. never paid that much money for a product i have to beg the company to use. funny you haven't commented on the fact that this is the most severe copy protection out there. do you have an opinion on how other companies are using challenge/response. or do you just want to make me feel small for feeling put out by something that can be fixed and better serve us as customers?

darthstephen · Post by **darthstephen** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:20 am

you know..it's funny. part of me is feeling like this because i'm still not confident there going to unlock my software in the morning. i hate feeling like it's up to someone else to decide whether or not i can use my software.

Hatchets McGee · Post by **Hatchets McGee** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:23 am

its worked fine for me. I prefer challenge-response systems, because if you have half-a-brain & a smidgen of foresight you can get your shit together and clone your OS - thus maintaining the same computer ID the whole time. You can get your ableton unlock key as a text file, and save it - and use that everytime you revert back to your cloned OS, and save YOURself the agro.

you've used 10 authorisations in less then half a year, and its only now you're considering getting norton ghost ? why should ableton deal with you, or people like you ? If 10 people were like you, that would be 100 authorisation codes floating around.....thats not on, and it takes time to figure out if you are genuine or not. So there has to be a bit of compromise....either get your shit-together and clone your OS, or be happy with a dongle. (which adds cost and uses cpu - and doesnt exist for ableton anyways, thankfully)

you're lucky you got 10 authorisations

beats the hell out of dongles.

darthstephen · Post by **darthstephen** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:40 am

i take offense to a few things you say, hatchets...
it takes more than a brain to clone your system. it takes more money for the software. at least on windows. and as far as being lucky for recieving 10 unlocks. well, that's your opinion. i paid for the software and was not warned ahead of time. a warning on the box or something would be nice. i don't know what your problem is with me. i think it's reasonable to get warned or have unlimited unlocks. you act like i screwed up and deserve to be punished for re-installing my os. this thread should be about ableton taking a good hard look at the possibilities of what happens to certain customers when they use unfair copy protection. give me a dongle, if it means i have control over the product i bought and saves time and energy on the companies side. believe me, i did not purchase ableton to be a problem. i don't want this issue just as much as they don't. but that's the flaw in their system. i guess dongles are messed up as well, but i just don't understand how i could use an ableton unlock on any other computer even if i wanted to. how are all these licenses floating out there like you say (ok don't answer that...doesn't seem possible to me, though...guess that lack of understanding is a major part of me not liking the system that i can't help but think is over the top). i don't want to make enemies. i know this system is really flawed and i hope ableton is thinking of a better solution.

j0shu@ · Post by **j0shu@** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:42 am

darthstephen wrote:, expiration of online unlocks,

WTF does this mean, expiration of the unlock?

copy protection is a pain. but kind of like wearing a seatbelt, or health insurance, you really should get used to it...

and as far as i know, if you dont replace any major hardware, you can use the same unlock on a reinstalled OS, without cloning. someone correct me if im wrong.

oh, and before i plopped down $500 on something, i made sure i had a decent grasp on how the copy protection worked.

Hatchets McGee · Post by **Hatchets McGee** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:44 am

pfff...I've had enough of your diatribe.

norton ghost, super duper.

good luck.

thelike5 · Post by **thelike5** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:59 am

I've been issued ONE unlock key since I first bought Ableton Live going on 5 years ago...

'nuff said.