ableton's unfair copy protection system

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
AdamJay
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Post by AdamJay » Fri Jun 30, 2006 5:31 am

Obviously their average customer does not re-install their OS once a month.

The copy protection scheme used is implemented with 'typical' customers in mind.

You are not a typical customer.

bigbadotis
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Post by bigbadotis » Fri Jun 30, 2006 5:41 am

Wow. I think that people are being a little harsh on the poster here. I'm on a Mac, so I've never had any problems whatsoever like what he/she is describing, but I don't think it's unreasonable to want to:

1. Be able to reinstall your operating system whenever you want (why are people so judgmental about this? Who cares?)

2. Be able to unlock software that you own in a timely manner after a reinstall.

It sounds like you might not be able to do this without Live / Windows without investing money in cloning software and constantly backing things up. It's not that unreasonable a complaint.

Again, I've never personally had a problem with Live and authorization. I'm one of the people who opened the thread thinking "how could anybody have a problem with this?" But after reading her/his post (and trying to ignore the slightly unpleasant tone of voice) I could see how it might be useful to have some type of deauthorize option available, so that if you knew you were going to reinstall software you could simply deauthorize your computer online before doing it, and then reauthorize once the installation was done.

djshiva
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Post by djshiva » Fri Jun 30, 2006 5:41 am

i must admit i find this problem quite odd. i have reinstalled the same copy of windows onto the same machine several times and have used the same ableton serial for the same machine and have never had ANY problems getting it to work.

if you are using the same version of windows that you have used before, i don't see why you keep needing new codes.

perhaps i am missing something, because i am only a techie insofar as i need to be to keep my machines running smoothly, but it seems like perhaps you are angry about something that could have been easily solved on your end.

my perspective is, if it was in your power to take the steps that kept ableton running smoothly (either ghosting or using the same windows version or whatever), and you did not take them, then blaming ableton is just an easy way to shove off your lack of pre-planning away from yourself and onto a convenient scapegoat.

color me simple, but YOU are the one who made this complicated, not ableton.
http://www.soundcloud.com/djshiva
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Macbook Pro Core 2 Duo / OSX / 2Gb RAM / Ableton Live 8 / Akai LPD8/LPK25

forge
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Post by forge » Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:00 am

djshiva wrote: if you are using the same version of windows that you have used before, i don't see why you keep needing new codes.

.
same - AFAIK the code would be the same

I certainly have installed many times - in fact I've even had a time when I had 3 or 4 computers and I was testing it out and trying to decide which one to use as my main one - and at the time I was installing/uninstalling windows again and again - and since 2002/3 when I bought live 2 I think I've had to email once in all that time because I used up my unlocks

peeddrroo
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Post by peeddrroo » Fri Jun 30, 2006 8:27 am

2 things:
first, consider your problem on an ableton perspective. how do you think someone who re-sells "legit" licenses would do?
probably the same way as you: pretending they need unlock keys every month or so. i mean, you can make about 300E every month. not too bad. i'm not saying you're doing it, but just consider that ableton is allowed to be sceptical.

2nd point about your system re-install: have you ever tried to keep it past 1 month? maybe 2 month? a WHOLE YEAR? i bet it would be fine. maybe, what you need to change is not the fact that you re-install windows every month, but what you do that makes you want to re-install it. WHY do you want to do that. you're answer is just "why not?".

tobee
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Post by tobee » Fri Jun 30, 2006 8:41 am

this is really funny. ableton's copy protection is one of the easiest protections i 've seen. if u have good reasons, there's no prob to get an auth. again.

10 unlocks in 6 months. to be honest. i also would question: "what's going on with this guy? 10 unlocks?"

and to be honest i can't bring 2 facts together.
1.) you said, that you lost a job cause of missing auth.
2.) you install your system pretty often.

how does this get's together. if your work is really so important, you could not spend so much time in re-installing your system again and again.

at least i couldn't. any downtime of my machine would cost me extra money.

i dont want to blame you, but really consider having a good backup solution for the future. i installed my system 1 year ago.
and yes its a pc .... :) and i also use internet on it etc.

i asume, that you never saw other companies policy.
ever tried to get a 2nd!!! authorisation for your Waves Plugins or Spectrasonics?
you would have to fight even for your 2nd or 3rd authorisation.
so ableton isn't as bad as you might think.

im using ableton since version 1, and i've never had any probs with authorisations. (and yes, i've changed my systems almost every 8 months)


again, no blaming, just want to show that - perhaps - you should rethink your way of working with your machines.
if not more trouble is for sure.

greets
t

eyeknow
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Post by eyeknow » Fri Jun 30, 2006 9:15 am

I'm wondering what the official unlocks is.

I have had to redo this macintel, for example, many times with no problems.

I have also clean installed on windows xp........many many times. I was under the impression that it's the mobo that is the main thing/machine id.......version of windows was not relevant. I had to buy a new copy of xppro because I had used up that registration......but that was about 3 years old. BUT, ableton installed fine......along with a bunch of other software that is based on the machine id.

Now I've had the "full" version for about a year. But even with lite, I have never been rejected.

So again, what is the cutoff?

capta1nA
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Post by capta1nA » Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:18 am

you do know about the 'unlock online' button right? are you emailing them every time assuming that you need a new key? :?

Angstrom
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Post by Angstrom » Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:35 am

ten times in 6 months?
you re-installed windows ten times! by choice ?

The last time my desktop got a re-install of XP was never.I installed it when I built the machine about 3 years ago, I maintain it and update it, it stays stable, that's it.

So, consequently I have not required 40 unlocks in that time, or found the Ableton system to be in any way worse than other protection systems.

I think the problems lie not with Ableton but with your machine, or at least - very close to your machine.

You are a prime candidate for conversion to cult of mac, please I think you should buy a mac, they will make you welcome, they have a lot of experience with PC users like you.

I look forward to your first "APPLE ROX !!!1!11!!" post

rikhyray
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Post by rikhyray » Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:49 am

I had to reinstall OS few times over weekend after doing most idotic purchase of lifetime_ Maudio Ozonic. Otherwise do it once or twice a year. No problems with Ableton
If I had to do like you I would throw the Windows through the window and get Mac
Ableton security is not the best ( my best is Reason, registrated, even if I loose physical disc I still can get them from them) but second best.
You break or loose fucking Cubase dongle you may have to buy new software, I suppose you never activated Waves.
Anyway read this to feel better
http://forum.cubase.net/phpbb2/viewtopi ... sc&start=0

forge
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Post by forge » Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:58 am

Angstrom wrote: You are a prime candidate for conversion to cult of mac, please I think you should buy a mac, they will make you welcome, they have a lot of experience with PC users like you.

I look forward to your first "APPLE ROX !!!1!11!!" post
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

ROFL

TheAnimal
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Post by TheAnimal » Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:32 pm

j0shu@ wrote: copy protection is a pain. but kind of like wearing a seatbelt, or health insurance, you really should get used to it...
That is a completely wrong picture, because in the case of copy protection you're not the one who's protected but the company selling the license.

Apart from that, darthstephen, from the way you're writing on this forum one can easily see that you're not the type of guy who attracts other people to treat him nicely.

I called the Ableton people on the phone a couple of times because of license issues and was very positively surprised about their friendlyness. :) And that also is the spirit of this forum, which I like best of all forums that I'm member of.

"Wie man in den Wald hineinruft, so schallt es auch heraus." Unfortunately I have no idea if there is an english equivalent for that saying.
MacBook Pro, iMac i5, Fireface 800, Fireface 400

icedsushi
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Post by icedsushi » Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:34 pm

Maybe someone meant to post in this thread and made a new thread by accident.

Noooo! Pleeeease delete THIS thread! :lol:

darthstephen
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Post by darthstephen » Fri Jun 30, 2006 2:11 pm

TheAnimal wrote:
j0shu@ wrote:

Apart from that, darthstephen, from the way you're writing on this forum one can easily see that you're not the type of guy who attracts other people to treat him nicely.
i'm really sorry you don't find me attractive. any copy protection that results in any amount of downtime to any customer should be rethought...i stand by that. re-installing once a month. i find that time well spent, rather than dealing with all the problems that creep up into systems all around me. i'll probably continue doing it that way. regardless, ableton is in no position to force me otherwise. but i am in the position to make a complaint and like i said earlier, if you guys are fine with this as a whole, don't change a thing. i simply thought more people have experienced this problem. perhaps macs are better suited to this copy protection. i can assure you though that after having worked in a mac repair center for 8 months, no one gets more pissed than a mac customer being charged 350 bucks for a dvd replacement in there g4 tower. or a customer who bought a loud and overheating g5 imac for thousands, only to find out even apple realized pretty quickly their g5s suck. why would i pay twice as much for a computer with an intel processor? so, maybe i'll have an easier time with ableton and their copy protection? apple is number 2 on my list of crap companies with horrible support, overpriced parts, and a wealth of meaningless ad campaigns convincing people to buy an overpriced, poorly manufactured product. seriously, folks. i live in a pretty small town...probably 50,000 people total and the authorized mac repair guy in town is like a friggin' millionarre. but, i digress (as if i hadn't already)


by the way, i'm not selling ableton licences for those who are skeptical. i don't think ableton thinks that either or they wouldn't keep allowing me to unlock. i believe they can tell that i unlock on a single computer. i would just like them to automate that knowledge and make it more convenient for people to authorize their product, if they are in the nuttso reinstall crazy people catagory like myself...

snowtires
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Post by snowtires » Fri Jun 30, 2006 2:20 pm

darthstephen wrote:55 views in less than a half hour. i'd say people are interested in this topic. maybe they are the ha ha ha i don't care that ableton treats me like a criminal-types. or maybe they have actually had problems too, but are too afraid to stray from the flock.
actually, it's probably the 'geez, this guy needs to calm down' people. ten unlocks in six months? what the hell are you doing to your computer that you had to reinstall the os ten times?

seriously. i've had the same laptop for two years and i reinstalled the os... once, a month after i got it. don't blame the abes because you're an idiot.

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