(OT): IN YER FACE BUSH! cant buy the supreme court

astronmr20 · Post by **astronmr20** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:37 pm

Thanks for posting a political board for Hambone. Seems he really needs one right now.

What's funny is this is already an O/T thread on a MUSIC site, but when we talk about hiking, suddenly we are "useless cunts who dont care about important issues."

Brilliant!

And I don't even really like Preident Bush that much.

djadonis206 · Post by **djadonis206** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:56 pm

hambone1 wrote:
Hatchett - here ya go, dude... have at it! >>> http://www.debatepolitics.com/

yes no work till Wednesday - I was just trying to take a nap and my boy called and decided to roll through early

Thank god you posted that link - now every time the OT 911 bush conspiracy theory Iraq war gay marriage thread pops up you can point them to that link and say "c ya!"

hambone1 · Post by **hambone1** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:00 pm

The only things that worries me about pointing some of the folks here at that site is the headline "Political bias optional, civility a must!"

That's gonna rule out some of the people here...

forge · Post by **forge** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 12:50 am

stinky wrote:
is that he thinks the US is randomly going around and grabbing civilians and putting them in jail. He does not believe in "terrorism". He thinks this is a made-up label which the evil United States has invented in order to abuse foreigners.... He thinks that the only real "terrorists" are the leadership of the USA.... and that they should be taken down.
i think you're oversimplifying dramatically, sorry. And that, you're either with us or your against us mentality is really obtuse. Shirley you must understand that the rest of the world is really sick of being bullied into submission by the US government... WTO, numerous coup de tas on foreign sovereign soil, unilateral diplomacy, hypocrisy at its finest. There's only so much people can take without retaliation. To look at someone and label them a terrorist without delving into the roots is as unfortunate as grouping hippies, fags, peace or animals activists, etc, into that fold. Our times are so reminiscent of the 50's it's not even funny how much of a mirror image it is (rampant conservatism, labeling people communists -> terrorists at your discretion, the start of the cold war with no end in sight). These are all symptoms of the power and control of fear. Don't flag wave just to do. Have some of your own thoughts, and read between the lines.. seperate yourself from the sheeple..

nicely and articulately put

Hatchets McGee · Post by **Hatchets McGee** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 12:55 am

hambone1 wrote:IMO, life's too short for all this depressing negativity and seriousness. I for one am thankful to be living in a safe society, free to do more or less whatever I want, as long as what I do doesn't adversely affect the rights of others.

man, you are like a mild mannered troll. You breeze through threads with clear titles, lampoon those concerned with the issue at hand, for your own amusement it seems.

I also find it worth noting that I am the only one in this thread who went to any length to provide material of significance to back up the things I said and assertions I have made, while everyone else preferred to stay in the context of wanton conjecture.

I tire of it and say 'useless cunts' ...and bam, I'm a no good potty mouth. and astron, you moron, you're not a useless cunt because of the hiking talk. Yer a useless cunt because you prefer hear-say to actual facts.

anyways, some pics for you hambone

enjoy your hike in paradise, fuckwit.

forge · Post by **forge** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:08 am

M. Bréqs wrote:
forge wrote:
I have never met or chatted online with anybody anywhere who is not American who thinks Bush is anything less than terrifying.
Ummm... We've exchanged text on this issue Forge, and I'm not from the US.

There are some non-US citizens who actually think that the world is a better place because of the neo-conservative movement. Remember:

John Howard was elected.
Stephen Harper was elected.

The neo-conservative movement has provided me in my daily life with continued protection, stability, and economic opportunity while safeguarding my right to criticize them should I choose. The comparison of neo-conservativism with nazism is bullshit, considering that a true totalitarian regime would never tolerate all the anti-neocon rhetoric on the internet and in the "alternative" media. The fact that guys like you forge can express your negative opinions is evidence that the neo-cons in Australia, Canada and the US are anything but fascists.

well...okay, maybe I meant northa american - I've certainly yet to meet a european or australasian who thinks he could be a good thing

sorry, you have said some very far out things in the past and I have to say, for someone who has shown himself to be intelligent in other areas to say something like:

"The neo-conservative movement has provided me in my daily life with continued protection, stability, and economic opportunity while safeguarding my right to criticize them should I choose."

boggles the mind. Do you really believe that?

and then:

The comparison of neo-conservativism with nazism is bullshit, considering that a true totalitarian regime would never tolerate all the anti-neocon rhetoric on the internet and in the "alternative" media. The fact that guys like you forge can express your negative opinions is evidence that the neo-cons in Australia, Canada and the US are anything but fascists.

so what do you think in the Germans that voted for Hitler were all evil and he was just their representative? Come on man, Hitler was in power for quite a while before he started the war and built concentration camps - the people who supported him would have been normal people like our grandparents (people in the 30s and the mentality that goes with it) who were suckered into the fear mongering

comparing them is pointless, they are different people, different times, different countries - but what people are comparing is the culture of fear they exploit to achieve what they want.

So as stinky said it is far more comparable to mccarthy era US - reds under the bed coldwar period.

9/11 happened, but invading Iraq and pissing everybody in the world off (besides the odd canadian apparently

) certainly wont be the one of the things that stops it happening again - tightening airport security and strengthening the resources that specifically work on the particular problem might help, but invading a totally unrelated country definitely wont, all it does is create more angry people.

forge · Post by **forge** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:24 am

hambone1 wrote:F'kin GREAT 15 mile blast through the forest with blazing hot sunshine, beers, girlfriend, and tunes blasting from the Camelbak.

And not once did we stop to ponder and debate John Roberts' qualification criteria, or the New World Order.

Gonna be up to 90F tomorrow...

you are right though - it's nice that some of us do care about the plight of the poor fuckers in Iraq/palestine etc etc, but whinging on a music forum and arguing with Bush supporters isnt going to help

but this morning I discovered why I do get involved in these sometimes

It gets the blood pumping - wakes up your passions and gives you some fuel to your fire to then get on and give it to the music

I'm really shit at mornings and usually take ages to wake up but I noticed just reading through this thread this morning has got my blood pumping and I feel like doing some music now!

Hatchets McGee · Post by **Hatchets McGee** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:27 am

forge wrote:you are right though - it's nice that some of us do care about the plight of the poor fuckers in Iraq/palestine etc etc, but whinging on a music forum and arguing with Bush supporters isnt going to help

heh - with some of the shit thats been said on the past page or two, you'd swear I started this thread

forge · Post by **forge** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:40 am

Hatchets McGee wrote:
forge wrote:you are right though - it's nice that some of us do care about the plight of the poor fuckers in Iraq/palestine etc etc, but whinging on a music forum and arguing with Bush supporters isnt going to help
heh - with some of the shit thats been said on the past page or two, you'd swear I started this thread

he he...well I didnt relly intend to debate the issue, I kind of said what I wanted to in the title and I knew some would appreciate it!

but I've seen a few of these debates go back and forth and they rarely lead down the path of enlightenement!

but like I just said last, it gets the blood boiling and that can be a good thing if you use that energy productively!

Hatchets McGee · Post by **Hatchets McGee** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:45 am

all well & good.

just remember who...

1-started the thread

2-refused to post any material or sources to bolster their claims

3-actually posted an article or two to support their assertations

4-kept things in the gutter that is conjecture

5-lampooned the topic being discussed, and the people interested in it.

forge · Post by **forge** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:47 am

Hatchets McGee wrote:all well & good.

just remember who...

1-started the thread

2-refused to post any material or sources to bolster their claims

3-actually posted an article or two to support their assertations

4-kept things in the gutter that is conjecture

5-lampooned the topic being discussed, and the people interested in it.

what does any of that matter?

astronmr20 · Post by **astronmr20** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:52 am

Hey Hatchets,

In regards to needing proof to anything I have said, I happen to know people who have PUT people in camp X-ray. People who were in battle, and instead of executing or killing the scum, they followed orders and detained these men when they surrendered. And I happen to know that when the offenders (or innocents as you may call them) were not just wacking off. Thy were plotting to kill REAL innocents, or they were shooting at coalition soldiers. So as I stated, in regards to the Geneva convention, they were detained when they surrendered or captured. I happen to beleive these people because they were family members of mine who were there. That ain't wanton conjecture. If it's not enough proof, I'm not sure what to say.

NUMEROUS detainees that have been interviewed by newspapers, including the Pakistan Daily Times, have said repeadetely that they will jump at the chance to fight again, and cannot wait to get back to Jihad.

Many of them HAVE been released. That's common knowledge and there's a myriad of stores on it. You can google, or I can find one for you. 248 have been released. There are still 512 there.

Where are these pictures from? Places and people in Israel? What statement are you trying to make by posting them? that "war is bad?" That the US, or Israel, or Great Britian are cold baby killers? c'mon, I know you have to be smarter than that. Are you trying to say that we try to mash up children when given the chance? I'm just unsure of what you are trying to say. The world is an F-ed up place these days, and I certianlly don't intend to look the other way, either.

My original post here was asking someone, and you can be included in this; weather it's the Iraq war, afghanistan, or anywhere else,
(weahter you agree with the wars or not) what should we do with the real enemy combattants?

It's here for all to see in black and white font: I made one reply about hiking in the woods, and you made personal insults. When I called you on it, you proceeded even further. I hope you realize that such things don't help to convince me of your points, so why post them?

In the spirit of free speech Hatchets, I'll ignore your personal attack, and NOT recommend that the moderator ban you. Please tell me what opther facts I need to back up, and I gladly will. The military allows press into Gitmo bay, something the enemy would never do. Should I post pictures of what our enemy does after they capture our soldiers or CIVILIANS?

stinky · Post by **stinky** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:05 am

Yeah, and i happened to know a Marine who recently got back stateside; he killed a little girl in Iraq. He told me about it round the bar, and couldn't stop crying about it. Once he did that, he could barely rationalize anything at all, except staying alive to come home to his own little girl, much less fighting this bullshit war for oil... don't kid yourself, it's not for Saddam, or terrorists, or anything like. You'd be foolish to think like that.

This man told me, he could barely look his own daughter in the eyes anymore, after he'd done. He's a good man.

astronmr20 · Post by **astronmr20** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:14 am

That's horrible. Something he will never get over, I'm sure.

It dosen't sound like he killed her in cold blood though. Not saying it's right, not saying he should ever get over it, but that sounds like the case. I too know someone who had to shoot at chidren there; the enemy recruited small boys to run up to soldiers and shoot at them. He probably won't get over it either. He's my brother. He's still in Ramadi. A horrible f-ed up mess it is.

We dug ourselves a BIG hole over there, and I don't think anyone, even those against the war, had any idea it would be this bad.

I read a lot about whats happening and why it happened, but I still don't see it being over oil.

Hatchets McGee · Post by **Hatchets McGee** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:23 am

forge wrote:he he...well I didnt relly intend to debate the issue

rrrright, 4455 posts on this forum alone, and you were completely un-aware that a thread with such a title would attract this kind of response. mm-hmm. ya. bullshit.

forge wrote:but I've seen a few of these debates go back and forth and they rarely lead down the path of enlightenement!

so...why did you decide to start ANOTHER one of 'those debates' ?

there's more trolls on this forum then I first thought. Really, its plain as day now. The language might be different but the intention is what counts.