Amen Break: Copyright?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Post Reply
Silverfish
Posts: 753
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:53 pm
Location: Calgary, AB
Contact:

Amen Break: Copyright?

Post by Silverfish » Fri Jul 14, 2006 6:20 pm

I'm working on a project and I've considered using the original Amen Break. Is this a copyright no-no, or what's the deal now? I should mention it's for an open source project, through a university, and I don't think royalties are something I'm budgeted for....

Thanks,

PS- Where the F is Live 6?!?!
Image

kineticUk
Posts: 1531
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 2:37 am

Post by kineticUk » Fri Jul 14, 2006 6:25 pm

Its been used so many times,
On so many tunes I listen to... don't tell anyone :)
MacBook MacOS Live 9.7.1 Max for Live Push Logic

Silverfish
Posts: 753
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:53 pm
Location: Calgary, AB
Contact:

Post by Silverfish » Fri Jul 14, 2006 6:31 pm

HA. That's kind of why I asked. I can think of so many tunes that use it, but I'd hate to be the one guy that gets it from The Man.
Image

scientist
Posts: 1336
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 2:06 am
Location: seattle

Post by scientist » Fri Jul 14, 2006 6:38 pm

don't worry about it. even the original song is suspect in its copyright...its a mix of two impressions songs (we're a winner and amen brother), and amen itself is based on a traditional (probably public domain) gospel song. hmmm...i have the 45 somewhere, i'll have to dig it up and see what the songwriting credits say.

kennerb
Posts: 1464
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 7:39 pm
Location: Oregon
Contact:

Post by kennerb » Fri Jul 14, 2006 7:14 pm

I've actually been collecting the royalties on the Amen break for the Broken Amen Relief Fund. Please send your contribution to;

Broken Amen Foundation
123 Broadway Ave
Eugene, Oregon
97401


Thank you, and may the drum and bass be with you.
3ghz Pentium 4 (Prescott), XP Sp2, 1gig Ram, Dual Monitor with Matrox Millenium, MOTU Traveler, Event EZ8 Adat card. Also IBM THinkpad t40 1.6 1 gig ram

Spackled Bat
Posts: 252
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 7:15 am
Location: Portland, OR
Contact:

Post by Spackled Bat » Fri Jul 14, 2006 7:19 pm

There is a post in this forum with the subject line "history of the amen break" that has a link to an interesting video about it. I watched it and it was kinda spooky but very informative.

acidshell
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:41 pm
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Contact:

Re: Amen Break: Copyright?

Post by acidshell » Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:29 am

Heres my view of it having studied a lot about sampling over the years take it or leave it:

The one of the copyrights is owned by the winstons, and neither the copyright owner of the winstons work or the drummer who played the riff have ever received money for it being used and are pissed off.

The other copyright is owned by the label, and i dont know who that is

so with al samples you need to get:
one permission from the copyright owner of the song -- usually a music publisher. in this case i think its the drummer or another member of the band sax player.
one permission from the copyright owner of the master tapes -- usually a record company

You then need to ask them is it ok to use. If they say ok then its ok. If not then you need tobuy them out otherwise you are not authorised and could get sued.

Or you can run the gauntlet
Or you can wait for the original artis to die and then wait another 50 years.

An alternative to this is to buy royaly free samples where session drummers have rerecorded it themselves which is allowed

Also if you perform it in a live environment i think its ok to do. just not selling it as a musical composition.

Everyone doing this is running the gauntlet

Heres 2 stories, to the best of my knowledge of course:
Lauren Hill from the Fugees got shafted for not getting clearence from my knowledge, for her solo album. dont know the specific details but google it. All the songs on the album were not hers and some of the artists were not dead 50 years so she was not authorised to use the songs.

The Prodigy's Liam Howlett writes the music with the sample and replaces it by then gets a session musician in to rerecord it to get around this issue. Now its not hte original sample. And as its all chopped up in a slightly different order and not the original musician nobody owns the rights except The Prodigy/Liam
Really clever.

chapelier fou
Posts: 5262
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 12:15 pm

Re: Amen Break: Copyright?

Post by chapelier fou » Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:09 am

It's mine. Give me money.
MacBook Pro 13" Retina i7 2.8 GHz OS 10.13, L10.0.1, M4L.
iMac 27" Retina i5 3,2 GHz OS 10.11.3 L10.0.1 M4L.

re:dream
Posts: 4562
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:42 am
Location: Hoerikwaggo's sunset side...
Contact:

Re: Amen Break: Copyright?

Post by re:dream » Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:02 am

Funk N. Furter wrote:Just use it and pray.

Amen!

Theo Void
Posts: 1021
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:00 am
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Contact:

Re: Amen Break: Copyright?

Post by Theo Void » Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:41 pm

Dude! Entire genres of music and entire cultures are based off stealing this sample. I wouldnt worry about it.

dazzer
Posts: 1240
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:24 am

Re: Amen Break: Copyright?

Post by dazzer » Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:07 pm

acidshell wrote:Heres my view of it having studied a lot about sampling over the years take it or leave it:

The one of the copyrights is owned by the winstons, and neither the copyright owner of the winstons work or the drummer who played the riff have ever received money for it being used and are pissed off.

The other copyright is owned by the label, and i dont know who that is

so with al samples you need to get:
one permission from the copyright owner of the song -- usually a music publisher. in this case i think its the drummer or another member of the band sax player.
one permission from the copyright owner of the master tapes -- usually a record company

You then need to ask them is it ok to use. If they say ok then its ok. If not then you need tobuy them out otherwise you are not authorised and could get sued.

Or you can run the gauntlet
Or you can wait for the original artis to die and then wait another 50 years.

An alternative to this is to buy royaly free samples where session drummers have rerecorded it themselves which is allowed

Also if you perform it in a live environment i think its ok to do. just not selling it as a musical composition.

Everyone doing this is running the gauntlet

Heres 2 stories, to the best of my knowledge of course:
Lauren Hill from the Fugees got shafted for not getting clearence from my knowledge, for her solo album. dont know the specific details but google it. All the songs on the album were not hers and some of the artists were not dead 50 years so she was not authorised to use the songs.

The Prodigy's Liam Howlett writes the music with the sample and replaces it by then gets a session musician in to rerecord it to get around this issue. Now its not hte original sample. And as its all chopped up in a slightly different order and not the original musician nobody owns the rights except The Prodigy/Liam
Really clever.
Holy fukken necropost

yur2die4
Posts: 6546
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:02 am
Location: Menasha, Wisconsin
Contact:

Re: Amen Break: Copyright?

Post by yur2die4 » Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:20 pm

Use it, and if anyone asks, say you got it from some sample collection haha

A lot of sample/loop collections have been sold with that audio included in them. It has really gone too far to be contained in any rational way.

Unless of course you flat out say 'hey, I sampled the amen break straight from the source', there is no way to say you didn't acquire it elsewhere. In which case you'd get to point a finger and claim ignorance haha

artpunk
Posts: 541
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:51 am
Location: The Antipodes
Contact:

Re: Amen Break: Copyright?

Post by artpunk » Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:22 am

If you do use the Amen break and the piece you use it in becomes immensely popular and makes a lot of money, depending on who actually owns the right to the break and if they decide to contest copyright and where they take you court, you may one day have to pay up something (or not) ...but if you've made a bucketload of cash whilst using it, then you shouldn't complain then? I don't know. Here's an example from our (Australian music/composers) recent history: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_Under ... ht_lawsuit
...and another with a different flavour: http://www.tonedeaf.com.au/news/local-n ... -bonfa.htm

“... it was just to make an average listener go: ‘What the fuck is this?’ That’s a real inspiration for me and something that I will explore more on upcoming recordings.”
- Wally De Backer (Gotye) quoting Ween's intention behind making records

jlgrimes
Posts: 1518
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:55 am
Location: Atlanta, Ga

Re: Amen Break: Copyright?

Post by jlgrimes » Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:28 am

Silverfish wrote:I'm working on a project and I've considered using the original Amen Break. Is this a copyright no-no, or what's the deal now? I should mention it's for an open source project, through a university, and I don't think royalties are something I'm budgeted for....

Thanks,

PS- Where the F is Live 6?!?!
If you are using it for a university you might want to be a little careful. Since the university is a business they most likely could be the ones getting sued. Many businesses have a list of songs though they can play at public events. If it is in their you probably could use the song as long as nobody is making any revenue off of it.

That said playing a sample like this would probably fall through the cracks.

The main problem is if you or somebody else used your performance and either made a lot of money or got a decent amount of recognition from it.

fishmonkey
Posts: 4218
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:50 am

Re: Amen Break: Copyright?

Post by fishmonkey » Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:04 am


Post Reply