deva wrote:there is always an excuse
call it what you want, i was just commenting on your use of the language. I wasn't excusing anything and understood your comparison, but again, zionism is not a religion, and in that context was incorrect. Not everyone who lives in israel is a zionist, including people in the government, who write policy.
deva wrote:Such a comparison does not turn out as you suppose. Israel is not humane, they just have better PR due to enough control of the media stories that come out.
It's funny because most jews/israeli's that i know say the exact same thing about the media machine against them, particularly CNN.
deva wrote:An aquaintance of mine is still traumatized from watching Israeli soldiers blowing holes through Palestinian children for no significant reason at all, and mainstream western media witnessing it and not even seeing it as noteworthy. The truth is not being represented
This is a horrible state of war. It happens on both sides, and it's not just israel that is doing this type of thing. In 2000, not even a month after the start of the 2nd intifada, 3 reservists wandered into Ramallah unknowingly (they got lost driving back to their base). They were detained by the Palestinian police at the station. Within an hour, a crowd of over a thousand broke into the station, ripped the soldiers apart with their bare hands, threw them down into the crowds and dragged them through the streets dismembered. If that's not brutality, i don't know what is. For every story you tell about palestinians dying, there are just as many about israelis dying.
The difference though is that Israeli's do not revel in these types of attrocities, whereas palestinians do. Israelis do not constantly show images designed to arouse hatred, unlike Palestinians. Compare the coverage given in Israel to the footage from the Ramallah lynching of Oct. 12, 2000 with the constant repetition on TV and in the school curriculum of the footage and of reenactments of the Muhamed A Durah affair two weeks earlier in the Palestinian media.
After that lynching, children were running around reenacting it, raising their 'bloody' hands in homage to the Ramallah lynch mob.
You talk about the israeli PR machine... you don't know jack, son. The israeli media is one of the most self-critical in the world. When the IDF accused the UN of using their ambulances to move Kassam rockets and the evidence failed to provide proof, the Israeli press denounced the mistake sharply: "Israel behaved with reckless haste and injured its pretensions to superiority over the Palestinians with regard to credibility." The Israeli media constantly debates the merits and losses of their morality and human indignation. There's no such thing anywhere else in the middle east that's even remotely comparable. If you're going to state inconclusively that it's "Israel's PR machine stupid", than you haven't a fucking clue. Everyone has PR!!! DOh. The PLO were/are masters of it.
Here's the difference. That friend of yours feels bad. My buddies in the israeli army feel bad. This isn't their choice. There's no easy fix. There's no simple answer, however much you want to blame israel, or palestine, or lebanon, or iran, or syria. But, there's not a person in israel that truly wants to go out and kill every arab. There are societal pressure that you're not considering. There are conscientious objectors everywhere, and that's really all anyone ever talks about there. And, the only thing they really want is, to be left alone, on their little piece of the pie. They're not looking to conquer anyone.
Flip the script, palestinians (and to a greater degree, the arab nation) would like nothing less than to see israel's demise. They say it every chance they get. They're not living in reality.. you can't undo a nation! It's just not possible. You've probably never been there, have you. You don't know jack. You're just reading your own version of the propaganda.
If you want a simple solution, have the israeli government pay to repopulate palestinians to respective arab nations. Give them a sum of money to get a decent plot of land (we all know there's plenty there) in an adjacent arab country of their choice. Let them pick. If they are their 'brothers', Syria, Iran, Saudi, Lebanon, Yemen, Morocco, Libya, Egypt, Tunisia, etc, etc... won't have a problem taking them in. We all know that won't happen, and that's not a simple solution, don't we. If it were, it could have been done already. I guarantee the Israeli government would pay for it (even though it amounts to extortion, but that's perspective and trivial in this regard). The fact of the matter is that arab nations perpetuate this to provoke israeli to attack, to make them look like the aggressor. You're looking at it onesided.
Of course, Israel isn't innocent. No-one is, that's the point. Yes, Israel kidnaps palesinians. When you've been fighting so long, you can really rationalize anything. But, i honestly think that israeli's trying hard to keep their moral ground, and the same cannot be said for the opposing side.
We all know how Islamists treat their woman. Shit, Shiite Muslims beat and cut themselves to pay tribute to Muslim saint Imam Hussein during the festival of Ashura. They still cut off the hands of thieves, and cut the clitoris off of females in some parts. I'm sorry, this is not moral.