live looping midi and quantizing issues

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Johnisfaster
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live looping midi and quantizing issues

Post by Johnisfaster » Mon Aug 21, 2006 9:16 am

ok so I'm all set up to live loop stuff I play on my keyboard, my only problem is if I play the first note too early then it just doesn't play at all when the loop repeats, if I let quantize to 8th notes I can get it every time but this limits you to 8th notes which kinda stinks, should I just try really hard to get the first hit dead on (or quantize to 16th which is pretty difficult) or is there a better way to deal with the "too early note drop off" problem?
It was as if someone shook up a 6 foot can of blood soda and suddenly popped the top.

iMartin
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Post by iMartin » Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:02 am

I have been having a similar issue using the method described in http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20174

I think it is something to do with my timing accuracy and the midi trigger signal, in the end I turned quantize off.

Johnisfaster
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Post by Johnisfaster » Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:05 am

but even with quantize off if you hit the first note too early then it doesn't play when the loop repeats...
It was as if someone shook up a 6 foot can of blood soda and suddenly popped the top.

glitchrock-buddha
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Post by glitchrock-buddha » Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:06 am

I've been thinking about this exactly for a while.

You can put it to quantize 16ths, but that can really kill the feel of the playing.
I usually just leave it unquantized, and move the first notes over afterwards, but i guess you can't do that live.

You could record directly from the midi track to an audio track live, and then it will catch the start because it will just record what it hears. That's the only thing i could think of.

grb
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Johnisfaster
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Post by Johnisfaster » Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:17 am

I've considered that, but it's kinda ruining the current work flow I have, not that I can't change the way I work but I had it all worked out in my head you know?
It was as if someone shook up a 6 foot can of blood soda and suddenly popped the top.

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Post by kronk » Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:36 am

ok, i'm not a looper myself but wouldn't it be possible if you do not record right when the loop record is triggered but have it run through one loop cycle without playing and only then actually start?

That way when you play a note too early it won't fall out of the loop but still be there just at the very end of the loop.

But maybe I'm totally off track...

Johnisfaster
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Post by Johnisfaster » Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:39 am

you're right that would work but that would take about 20 seconds of preperation before recording each new part and although that doesn't sound like alot it would really kill the spontinaiety of it all

hm... it appears there is no "perfect" answer for this
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Johnisfaster
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Post by Johnisfaster » Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:42 am

it would be amazing if you could adjust the recording quantize at will without using a mouse. like hot keys or even better midi.

I know you can adjust the trigger quantize at will using something like ctrl + numbers but it would be awesome if you could adjust the record quantise too.
It was as if someone shook up a 6 foot can of blood soda and suddenly popped the top.

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Post by glitchrock-buddha » Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:55 am

come to think of it, maybe the best thing to do is just to have it on overdub, and play the same key/chord at the beginning of the loop the first time it loops back, and then stop playing after that. It replaces the first chord, but if you're early, you keep the start at the end of the loop.

It's so simple, yet unintuitive, because your instinct is to stop playing at the end of the loop.
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Johnisfaster
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Post by Johnisfaster » Mon Aug 21, 2006 9:36 pm

yeah that works nicely, I was also considering that trick, but I like to make my songs in two sections so it works nicely for the first section and then when I go to the next section all is well but when I switch back to the first batch of loops anything that has the early beginning slapped onto the end has a silence the first time around.

the only way I've found to get this perfect every time is 8th notes which really limits your playing. works pretty good for all my basses and melodies actually but the drums NEED 16th notes and I can't play perfectly enough to quantise at 16th cause sometimes I may be closer to the off note and it quantizes all off.
It was as if someone shook up a 6 foot can of blood soda and suddenly popped the top.

Johnisfaster
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Post by Johnisfaster » Mon Aug 21, 2006 9:37 pm

god forbid I have to learn to play correctly hehe
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Post by mooncaine » Tue Aug 22, 2006 3:51 am

I've only used Live Lite so far, but I'm thinking seriously of getting Live mainly to do live loop-based music, all loops built on the fly.

Would it be possible for you to assign a MIDI controller to the recording quantize function you mentioned, like, say, a fader or knob on an M-Audio Trigger Finger?

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Post by Machinate » Tue Aug 22, 2006 9:08 am

yes it would, but it would require some trickery using AutoHotKey and Bome's midi translator or similar.
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Post by Johnisfaster » Tue Aug 22, 2006 10:31 am

oh interesting machinate, would this be possible on osx by chance?

if I could switch between 8th note quantize and no quantize I would be totally happy.
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Post by glitchrock-buddha » Tue Aug 22, 2006 12:00 pm

Johnisfaster wrote:oh interesting machinate, would this be possible on osx by chance?

if I could switch between 8th note quantize and no quantize I would be totally happy.
On a mac, you can set record quantization to a key command by going into preferences > keyboard/mouse and adding it under Live. You could do one for no quantization and one for eighth note quant. You'd have to hit the key command while you're playing to change to no quantization though.

I don't much about that midi translator but i guess it could maybe transfer a key command to a midi key or cc?

grb
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