Need a "create a song" type tutorial...

[Deathbliss]

I've watched all of Ableton's tuts, read most of the lessons, and now I have an idea of how to use the program. But I'm missing something to put it all together. Is there a free tutorial, preferably video, that shos you how to make a song? What I mean by that is some person goes along and shows you how they make a song using Live 5. If I can find that and follow along, then I should be able to start doing my own music.

Appreciate any help!
- Deathbliss

[ct43]

do you mean how to structure a song? like beats / chords / melody??

[DeadlyKungFu]

there's no single way to do it. make up scenes of good sounding clips, look up follow mode. some people never use arrange view, some only use arrange view. copy clips to the (session) horizontal view or hit the big record button at the top of the screen to record into horizontal view. then select an amount of time/music in the session view and use the RENDER TO DISK command to make a .wav or .aif file.

open the .pdf manual and use the search command to find info on topics, also use the help box in the lower left corner. it's all well-written but under-read.

it's called Live because it's meant to be played with, like audio play-doh, just don't eat too much of it.

[Deathbliss]

OK, the situation with me here is I've been given all these awesome tools and materials, and told to make a spaceship. I know the generalities entailed in building this, but in order to figure out what to do with all this stuff I need the blueprints. You dig?

If I could watch someone just doing their thing - creating music with Live 5 from a new project. If I was able to see every step they took, every setting they used - everything - then I could jump into Live and start doing my own thing. Right now I'm getting confused just trying to record some clip presets. Instead of asking a dozen questions, just getting a video or really detailed page type tutorial should answer all my quetions, and help me get started.

I'll even give you guys the link to the best screen recording program out there - it's free and easy to use:
http://www.camstudio.org/

Here's the best free video codec:
http://www.xvidmovies.com/codec/

I make these statements based on personal experience. These are what I use to make my video tutorials for modelling and level editing. So whatdaya say - help a guy out? You willing to just sit down and make yourself a song while using CamStudio then give us a link when the vid is ready? I know that I for one will be the happiest guy this side of America...
- Deathbliss

[DeadlyKungFu]

browse these
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... rch=Search

[tylenol]

in order to figure out what to do with all this stuff I need the blueprints. You dig?

Well, if someone gave you the blueprints, you would be writing their song (or just playing it). So you get to write your own blueprints.

I don't think you'll really find a tutorial that covers everything you want; everyone does it their own way (especially in live), and the process is exceedingly complex even for a beginner like me. Also, the most important component is all about being creative, and I bet there isn't a tutorial about how to be creative. Here's a rudimentary process that has worked for me to a certain extent (though I am really not that much longer at this stuff than you). It is not general to all kinds of music.

I. First, make a sound (or choose a preset on some synth). For me this is almost always a pad or a pad-like lead. How you do this will depend on your synth, but if you're using operator, try the built-in tutorials. Then play with the sound, trying to develop a melody of sorts (or maybe you have a melodic idea already). Then record a loop expressing your melodic idea. Maybe do this anywhere from 2-20 times, until you have something(s) you are happy with. Tweak the loop in the midi editor (I do this while it is playing), fixing up any quantization etc. Next, record other parts of the loop as desired. Conventional things that accompany a melody are bass, drums, pads, rhythmic percussion, etc. Each of these has its own complexities. You may be better served by starting with something simple (just a lead and a bass?), and not worrying about the details of your effects chain until later. This first step will involve lots of time and tweaking, especially at the beginning.

II. At this point, you have a little bit of music that may form the core of the song, and you want to start thinking about the structure of the song. There are many options here - for more information take a music theory class, read a music theory text, and/or listen to songs that you want to emulate over and over again. The live demo song used in many of the tutorials gives one traditional structure. Maybe you will decide that the loop you have developed is a chorus, and then you would repeat the process to try to develop several verses, as well as an intro and an ending, and perhaps some transitions. You don't have to decide this all at once, just start making other liitle bits of music.

III. At this point you want to put everything together. You probably have structured your different song segments into scenes, so spend some time improvising in the clip view (as someone pointed out upthread, not everyone even uses the clip view). You can, if you like, now record the song into the arrangement, or drag clips to arrangement -- I find it easier to treat live like an instrument and record a "performance" played on the clip view. Now start tweaking stuff in arrangement view. What you do at this stage will be highly dependent on your song, but it may involve adjusting transitions, adding extra texture, adjusting automation (probably lots of adjusting automation). There is nothing to stop you from scratching any and all parts and going back to the drawing board here -- live is very flexible about switching your workflow to and from the arrangement view.

IV. Maybe now you have something you might call a song, and it is time to think about making the overall mix sound good. There is a lot to think about here, and if you search around these forums you will find much advice and information. This is one of the more technical parts of the process, and I'm not much good at it, so I'll leave it at that.

(A video showing this whole process would be days long! Also, be aware that this process is not nearly so linear as I have depicted it, and as you get more comfortable with live, whatever process you develop will become less and less linear.)

By the way, you might be interested in the venus hum video that was linked recently.

[xzusa8ky]

Hi..

What you are looking for is "Skillz" and the only way to get these is to do like all the other good producers do, they work hard, every day in the studio, to get better, and they do practice and read a lot in manuals to get there. Go for the manuals and practice, and you see one day, you will get there...

Without hard work you will proberly never reach you goal!

Wish you luck! Keep it up! Trust yourself!

Kind Regards

[Lovin Teris]

At some point in the song-making process there's got to be a moment of "blimey, that's an idea!". If that ever happened to me, and I had the equipment to capture it, I would never make a video of it and spread it around.

However, in the meantime, there's things to do. I personally like to start with some chord changes on an acoustic guitar. To me that's what separates a song project from just meaningless strumming.
Then I try to find a rhythm, usually a simple loop off some covermount disc, before I start recording. I find the rhythm dictates how I play the rest. I make a clip in session view of the loop and maybe some variations. A bar or two.
Then I ususally throw down a simple bassline with Operator or Simpler, also to a clip in session view. If I already know the different parts, I make the different clips.
Then it's time to get the chords down, rhythm guitar so to speak. Again, different clips for different parts, usually up to eight or twelve bars.
Then I listen to the result and try to catch a melody in there somewhere.

Then I realise it's all crap and I should either:
1) do it all over again, properly, or
2) start something else entirely.

Go through the included lessons. They will give to lots of tips as to the workflow of the program itself. When you're comfortable with recording clips, inserting effects, using virtual instruments etc., it's time to experiment. And wait for the ideas to start flowing!

[mylkoa]

Check up with me in a week or two. I'm going to post some video tutorials on you tube, just looking for a digital projector.

Cheers,
Andy

[Machinate]

Deathbliss, I definitely hear what you're saying here. I feel watching others do their thing with Live can be very very inspiring. Even the current youtube selection, regardless of quality, is enough for me to get some creative stuff going in my head.

I'll start taping stuff now when playing around with Live. I heard someone ask for an impulse tutorial... I'll give that a shot later on, hopefully tonight.

[mylkoa]

Machinate makes some nice stuff...
This is a treat.

Would be nice to see a global initiative to demostrate uses of Live through video. I have the Live 5 Power book, and it gives short interviews with some artists around the world and gives some tips and tricks, but there's plenty of room for improvement concerning this.

If there aren't video tutorials for Max/MSP, and other complicated programs, there should be as well. I have searched a couple of times and haven't found any working ones.

Csound has some nice books, especially the one by Boulanger (spelling?), but again, no video. Would make that 1000 page book much easier.

Sometimes I wonder if there isn't a conspiracy to hide knowledge in this way. I wonder if some people aren't hoarding the wisdom to keep it in elite circles, or maybe to make money some how. I guess if I had a doctorate degree in electronic music, I would not teach the world about synthesis and thus keep a cush job.

It's all Bush's fault I think.

[Emissary]

I've watched all of Ableton's tuts, read most of the lessons, and now I have an idea of how to use the program. But I'm missing something to put it all together. Is there a free tutorial, preferably video, that shos you how to make a song? What I mean by that is some person goes along and shows you how they make a song using Live 5. If I can find that and follow along, then I should be able to start doing my own music.

Appreciate any help!
- Deathbliss

i dont mean to sound like an arse, but that is kind of what creativity is. we learn the skills to make music and then the creative part takes over and basically you do what sounds good to your ear. If you just follow a tutorial you will end up making dull tracks. Let the juices flow.

[mylkoa]

I can see the truth in what you say, Emissary.

I still think there are some really basic universal things that don't hurt to get out of the way quickly, and some haven't been covered in the tutorials I've seen.

There's plenty of room for creativity, uniqueness and innovation IMHO.

[Deathbliss]

My intention with my request was not to find out how someone makes music in Live and copy them. That just isn't my style - I WANT to do my own thing. My desire is to merely to watch someone else make a song from scratch, and wait until the lightbulb goes of in my head and I'm thinking, "So THAT"s how it's done!" Then I'll follow the process that person used until I get it down, but I won't copy the person's work - that ain't right. I'll just follow along the process, then adapt that process to how I want to make music, then make my own song.

Another example I can use is level building. Any mappers here for any video games? The best way to learn to make your own levels IS NOT to sit there and stare at the editor and hope by sheer osmosis you can design a level. And just fooling around with the buttons until you got it figured it is a VERY long and difficult road. So the best way to learn level design is to go through a "first level" tutorial that shoes you how to make a map, then you use that process to start making your own.

I just need a "first song" tutorial - preferably video - then I can start making music. I'm prettty sure I'm not alone on this...
- Deathbliss

[Random_hero]

I agree. Just like learning programs like Photoshop. Everyone starts doing those corny tutorials with the nasty filters. But when you get the hang of it, you'll be able to develop your own style