will v6 have sidechaining?

DeadlyKungFu · Post by **DeadlyKungFu** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 6:57 pm

hoffman2k wrote:I wonder if anybody actualy goes to the tips and tricks sticky

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27120

http://audiostation.blogspot.com/

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29851

I hadn't looked it for a long time, the table of contents up front is really well done. The thing is, it's daunting, where to start, what do I need to brush up on?? I'm spend all my time doing new tracks, pushing to finish old ones, trying to break Live, setting up my BCR and SL and I post here every 3 minutes. When I learn new stuff it's usually me just screwing around.

Maybe a tip-a-week style of threads or something, I'm definitely going to start going through it. The new problem is that I only just now 5 minutes ago learned how to sidechain compress

I might have to call in sick to work on Monday, holy mother of pearl that's a way to get a tight groove, I have to go and redo ALL my electronica tracks, it's a brave new world.

Thanks to all for the links and lessons, this is seriously cool, I'm giddy. whoooohooooo!!!!

Airwave · Post by **Airwave** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 6:42 am

hey everyone,

thing that annoys me is that most of those sidechaining tips and tricks involve third party software.

I just wanted to give a little tip away for those who don't have anything else than Live.

Personally once I got my hands on it seriously, back 12 months ago, I knew I could make any single kind of glitch/chop/whatever effect I wanted without installing any kind of AU/VST plug.

So, here's why I posted that tip, although it's not suitable for every purpose, I admit.

I enjoy reading those arp/gate/scale etc... tips on this forum. It's great help for me

L.

sebovzeoueb · Post by **sebovzeoueb** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 12:33 am

Does anyone know a freeware sidechain compressor in universal binary? So far as I can see the autopan only works for sidechaining a regular beat, if you need to sidechain an irregular kick this is obviously not possible in Live...

sebovzeoueb · Post by **sebovzeoueb** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 12:57 am

Aha found it :
http://teragon.org/products/DualComp/

it's still in testing, but it appears to work...

alvaro · Post by **alvaro** » Wed May 09, 2007 11:15 am

Airwave wrote: Well well well

in fact, THERE IS a sidechain compressor, hidden somewhere in Live, and you wouldn't believe this, it really makes wonders for dance music, but unfortunately not for anything else..

Forget about comp II for 5 minutes. Insert AutoPan, set the rate to 1/4, with a saw-waveform, set the angle to O° first. OF course remove the L to R effect, unsuitable here. INVERT the waveform with the box on the left side of the plug. Set the shape as you want it, to emulate the release of compression, while you can set the angle to 345-359 to simulate slower attacks. Increase the amount slowly until you get the amount of "comp" that you want.

it really helps. So you guys wondering why the ableton ppl didn't go for sidechain compression plugins in L6?? I think this more or less explains why!

I am not sure but I didn't find this little tip back in the forum pages... maybe someone could post a link if there's 1??

Laurent

you......

er... holly fuck it works IT WORKS IT WORKS

thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you
thank you thank you

boraxx · Post by **boraxx** » Wed May 09, 2007 4:36 pm

the problem i have with live's sidechaining ways (and please correct me if im wrong here) is that the sidechaining source (the classic kick drum, usually) can only be routed to one track. that means that if i want to have different tracks, with different sidechain-able compressors, affecting in different ways their source material, i would have to do a mess of a routing hack.

am i wrong?

djadonis206 · Post by **djadonis206** » Wed May 09, 2007 6:12 pm

Auto Filter works the same way as described earlier with Auto Pan

Set your auto filter to low pass

LFO rate sync'd to 1/4 beat

Phase at 0

adjust the amount to taste

now adjust your lkow pass filter until you hear the pump

granted it cuts high freq's unlike Auto pan but it's another spin on the aidechain pump pump action thing

peace out

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Wed May 09, 2007 6:30 pm

Granted this works well for 4-on-floor dance kicks, but you have to be careful of two things: 1. If you ever go off-beat, and you've set Autopan to 1/4, then you might miss the kick. 2. For any other type of music where the kick isn't every quarter note, this is not going to work - it's not true sidechaining.

There are several freebies out there like SSS plugis, but my favorite is Twisted Lemon's Sidekick. It has a feature that allows you to not have to reroute the kick into both the trigger as well as its own output. Also, Sidekick works on most PC apps, even DirectX apps.

Laurent, didn't know you were on this board. When is the next record coming out? I miss your massive builds and cinematic melodies...beautiful stuff!

djadonis206 · Post by **djadonis206** » Wed May 09, 2007 6:45 pm

also try the vanilla comp <--- google it

I like it

but right now I'm auto filtering it (with a break so there Nebulae!)

pea*e

]]onis

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Wed May 09, 2007 6:54 pm

djadonis206 wrote: but right now I'm auto filtering it (with a break so there Nebulae!)]]onis

You only think it's working because you're distraught over Paris' persecution in the media/court system, thereby rendering your ability to produce music limp as a Hugh Heffner without viagra.

(actually, if you're filtering on 1/8ths or 1/2, then it can still work, but it ain't no realy sidechaining, and any of those freebies will work better)

friend_kami · Post by **friend_kami** » Wed May 09, 2007 6:57 pm

screw video support man.
if i wanted an audio/video solution for studio work i would have gotten something else.

i choose live because its live.
it was developed to be used live, and its focus is on audioproduction, not video editing/syncing/wtf.

steve-o · Post by **steve-o** » Wed May 09, 2007 7:05 pm

eamoon wrote:Yep, and I've had good results with various Reaktor-based compressors. That said, if you're relying on sidechained compression to make your music pump, you should probably work harder on your choice of sounds. If your various bass sounds don't step all over each other then there's no need for fancy compression tricks, and the result will sound more solid. Unless you're going for the eurocheese sound, that is...

I hear this all the time, and honestly, think this a weak argument. The pump *is* sidechain compression. You can do work arounds with clip envelopes and such, but a good sidechain compressor will nail *that sound* and after all, most people are looking for *that sound* even if many are not.

However, good choice of sounds and sidechain is really the secret. Sidechainig cannot compensate for bad sounds.

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Wed May 09, 2007 7:09 pm

I agree with the statement that sidechaining won't help bad sounds. I also disagree that you don't need sidechaining to get a pumping mix. As Steve-o said, that pumping sound is created by a good side-chaining compressor, and in fact, it's very musical and creates a professional sound.

On top of that, side-chaining is useful even when you don't want pump. Subtle amounts of kick-gated-bass can be very useful even in softer songs where you want clarity and detail in the lower frequencies of your mix. Bottom line is that sidechaining is essential, and it has been used by most engineers and producers for decades.

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Wed May 09, 2007 7:21 pm

...and then there are plenty of top engineer's who don't use it at all.......

it's just one tool in your toolbox.

one of my old bosses, Jim Bonnefond was best known for being Kool and the Gang's engineer. He related a great external key input (note i don't say sidechain, because that's NOT exactly what you guys are talking about. we have a sidechain eq compressor) usage on a gate. Kool and the gang had a big brass section that was kind sloppy. Jim threw a gate across all of them, and used the tightest player's mic as the key input for the gate... tightened it right up.

.lm.

alvaro · Post by **alvaro** » Wed May 09, 2007 7:25 pm

nebulae wrote:Granted this works well for 4-on-floor dance kicks, but you have to be careful of two things: 1. If you ever go off-beat, and you've set Autopan to 1/4, then you might miss the kick. 2. For any other type of music where the kick isn't every quarter note, this is not going to work - it's not true sidechaining.

Yes, absolutely. That's why we still need real sidechain inputs on Live's dynamic devices (Anyways its a killer trick)

nebulae wrote: There are several freebies out there like SSS plugis, but my favorite is Twisted Lemon's Sidekick.

I gonna try.... Did you noticed any addon latency with that plug?