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 Post subject: Logic Pro vs. Ableton Live DEATHMATCH
PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 9:47 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:40 pm
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Location: Århus Denmark / Orange Country California
Why is it that Apple / Emagic decided to include all of the features of Logic Pro e.g. Sculpture, Ultrabeat, etc - whereas Ableton decided to make Operator & Sampler separate purchases?

Factoring into this also is the fact that there is Logic Express, and Logic Pro - Express being the watered down version...

What do you guys think? It just kind of sucks having to pay for the extra functionality, which I feel should already be at home in the main program to begin with.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 9:54 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:09 am
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Location: Los Angeles
basicly its like this, how much is the logic pro with included instruments that you are comparing to Live 6 without sampler and operator, then add the cost of sampler and operator and compare that price to logic pro.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:01 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:40 pm
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Location: Århus Denmark / Orange Country California
I had considered that, and perhaps should have included that in my initial post. What percentage of Ableton Live users do you think purchase Operator & Sampler? If the number is high, perhaps they should consider simply integrating it into the main product. Not that I'm a fan of higher prices or anything. All I know is that... well... I'm starting to agree more and more with your reply.

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 Post subject: Re: Logic Pro vs. Ableton Live DEATHMATCH
PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:09 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:45 pm
Posts: 372
psilopsyche wrote:
Why is it that Apple / Emagic decided to include all of the features of Logic Pro e.g. Sculpture, Ultrabeat, etc - whereas Ableton decided to make Operator & Sampler separate purchases?

Factoring into this also is the fact that there is Logic Express, and Logic Pro - Express being the watered down version...

What do you guys think? It just kind of sucks having to pay for the extra functionality, which I feel should already be at home in the main program to begin with.


I think you should buy logic pro and with logic pro in your hand should subsequently jump off a cliff.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:09 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:15 pm
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Location: Denmark
well for starters there aren't a lot of people djing with Logic ;-)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:33 pm 

Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2002 2:18 am
Posts: 6150
Location: Auckland New Zealand
Apples strategy, after buying Emagic, was to BLITZ the competition with an unheard-of price point for their software. Of course this software runs best on the biggest, shiniest, newest APPLE hardware.

It's a loss leader. Sell 'em cheap software once, and they'll buy new hardware every 3-4 years to run it on. That's why Apple can afford to sell Logic so cheaply.

As a long-time Logic user, I paid for the ES-1, the EXS-24 and the Evoc vocoder as separate upgrades before they became included in the Logic package.

Ableton, not being a hardware manufacturer, can't claw back the cost of software development, except through selling their software.

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Last edited by Pitch Black on Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:37 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 8:11 am
Posts: 291
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
I think that separating the instruments is quite good. I would never have bought Live a year ago if it cost 999 dollars instead of 400 or what the price was at the time.
The operator app I never thought I would use so I basically ignored it, until one day I found some wicked sounds for it.
Someday maybe I will get the sampler, but I don´t see it in my future right now.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:42 pm 

Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 11:04 am
Posts: 85
Location: Brighton, U.K.
What's to compare?
F*ck all, imo.
Own them both. Do different things with them. Where's the story?
Apple, as has been said, took over Emagic and punted out Logic with all the bundled instruments as a loss leader for their hardware.
Ableton have a different strategy and a different piece of software.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 11:49 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 5:24 pm
Posts: 403
This is simple marketing and you can't deny that it's Apple's strong point. Which makes more sense: trying to sell a $200 program that can only be used by existing customers or trying to sell your $600 program to a larger market of all potential DAW users, DJs and electronic musicians who will then get sucked into yearly $200 updates? In my opinion Ableton would probably be better off if they included Operator and Sampler for free with Live and simply raised the price $50.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 11:56 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:40 pm
Posts: 130
Location: Århus Denmark / Orange Country California
melocoton wrote:
This is simple marketing and you can't deny that it's Apple's strong point. Which makes more sense: trying to sell a $200 program that can only be used by existing customers or trying to sell your $600 program to a larger market of all potential DAW users, DJs and electronic musicians who will then get sucked into yearly $200 updates? In my opinion Ableton would probably be better off if they included Operator and Sampler for free with Live and simply raised the price $50.


I am in agreement with you on this. I find it an inconvenience to have to buy these things separately.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:02 am 

Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 10:02 pm
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psilopsyche wrote:

I am in agreement with you on this. I find it an inconvenience to have to buy these things separately.


I'd rather see them sold separately than bundled with Live at an additional cost of $350. Particularly since I don't intend to buy Sampler.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 2:30 am 

Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 5:24 pm
Posts: 403
The point is that it shouldn't be an additional cost of $350.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 2:42 am 

Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:29 pm
Posts: 1125
Location: earth
psilopsyche wrote:
I had considered that, and perhaps should have included that in my initial post. What percentage of Ableton Live users do you think purchase Operator & Sampler? If the number is high, perhaps they should consider simply integrating it into the main product. Not that I'm a fan of higher prices or anything. All I know is that... well... I'm starting to agree more and more with your reply.




I for one do not need sampler. therefore i am quite happy not pay extra
for a tool i will likely never user... ever.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 2:47 am 

Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:32 pm
Posts: 1643
I am glad Ableton did not bundle them and raise the price. I just upgraded to Live 6 and did not get Sampler. Since I own Kontakt, Sampler just did not offer enough that I cannot do in Kontakt to convince me to buy it. I'd be annoyed if I were forced to buy it by having it included.

I am quite happy with the $120 Live 6 upgrade and price.

And I have all the 3rd party synths, sampler, effects etc that I need anyway.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 2:51 am 

Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2005 7:06 am
Posts: 876
melocoton wrote:
The point is that it shouldn't be an additional cost of $350.


Why?


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