MusicTech review: Live 6 lacks audio quality!!

dj superflat · Post by **dj superflat** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:20 pm

ok, this has been covered many, many times. even without tempo changes, some of the warp modes (complex and, apparently, tones) affect the sound. so if you don't want the sound to change, use one of the other warp modes at the same tempo and you can still loop, use clip envelopes, etc.

all that said, i think this is ableton's fault. they should make clear how users can avoid affecting audio quality when they don't need tempo changes but want loops and envelopes, because there seem to be a significant number of people who want to use live this way and are confused. i would think this would be covered clearly in the manual (it may be in there somewhere, but i don't recall seeing the issue called out or explained in a way that's satisfying, and all the questions on this issue suggest the manual isn't getting it done regardless).

mainly, i'd like to avoid going through this debate again in a few months.

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:26 pm

I didn't think this was a debate?

Spiralgroove · Post by **Spiralgroove** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:26 pm

go make some damn music people

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:32 pm

Quiet you, I know where you live (more or less)

Besides, by left brain is waiting for a smoke break.

Spiralgroove · Post by **Spiralgroove** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:41 pm

i meant "them" more than "you"

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:47 pm

thank you tarekith for doing these tests!

now we have some things to point to when this topic rears it's ugly head again.

.lm.

ps, knotkranky, did you ever sort out your stability issues with live?

chis · Post by **chis** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:51 pm

Ho ho ho. Someone took a MusicTech Magazine review seriously. You poor sods.

I bought the first issue of this rag out of curiosity. Just like a lot of the glossy tech mags (yes, even Future Music - well they at least don't outright suck), you can read through them in 20 minutes.

Utterly useless reviews with no depth. Hell, I didn't use any of the samples on the cover CD, either. Pants. Total pants.

*Rushes back to Sound on Sound.*

knotkranky · Post by **knotkranky** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:08 pm

leisuremuffin wrote:thank you tarekith for doing these tests!

now we have some things to point to when this topic rears it's ugly head again.

.lm.

ps, knotkranky, did you ever sort out your stability issues with live?

Yeah, there is an improvement in 5.2 but i've left 5 for 6 completely for the multi processor improvements and other bits. Unfortunately I haven't had a chance to stretch 6 out yet. Judging by the forum gossip things are looking good. No matter though, I always enjoy live composing and it appears Abe's is creeping up the integration with pt. The future looks bright. Thanks lm, cheers.

defmut · Post by **defmut** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:14 pm

I noticed that when I played Absynth 3 as a plug in in Ableton, it loses it's volume and overall sound quaility as compare to if I played Absynth as a stand alone.

Same with Reason 3, when tracks are rewired, it seems like i always have to use an eq in Ableton to boost the volume.

What up?!? Don't do this to me Ableton baby.

tylenol · Post by **tylenol** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:19 pm

Tarekith wrote:- The warp modes Tones and Complex did not cancel, with Tones being the worse of the two (the most audio information was audible where total silence should occur).

I don't have most of your tools, but it is possible to run a simplified version of this test in live using the new meters in session view + Utility. On the file I tested I did get complete cancellation in tones mode (i.e. master never went above -inf), but not in complex mode. I don't know how low the live meters will register, though, but in complex mode it was actually peaking at 5.7db in one place, probably averaging around -3 (I didn't tweak any faders), so it was certainly much worse in complex than tones.

Michael-SW · Post by **Michael-SW** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:20 pm

defmut wrote:I noticed that when I played Absynth 3 as a plug in in Ableton, it loses it's volume and overall sound quaility as compare to if I played Absynth as a stand alone.

Same with Reason 3, when tracks are rewired, it seems like i always have to use an eq in Ableton to boost the volume.

What up?!? Don't do this to me Ableton baby.

Have you tried using the, you know, volume fader? Sounds like an easier solution than EQ to me.....

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:26 pm

tylenol wrote:I don't have most of your tools, but it is possible to run a simplified version of this test in live using the new meters in session view + Utility.

LOL, I knew this was going to come up. Forgot to add in my original post that I repeated this test in Live with utility with the exact same results. sorry about that, I had a feeling someone was going to call me ont he SX bit, so I double-checked in Live too.

Tones comparisons seem to be audio dependant. The original file I used for the comparison was an arp synth bit I had recorded from my TI. With that, the Tones mode DID cancel. That was only an audio file that had mainly mid-range sounds in it through, which is why I redid the test with a full range mixdown audio file.

defmut · Post by **defmut** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:27 pm

This is with the volume fader turned all the way up and starting to clip (red).

frankie123 · Post by **frankie123** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:28 pm

I posted this in another thread but figured it was appropriate. I compared outputted tracks in pro tools and ableton, they sound the same. Maybe under some EXTREME recording circumstances like recording an orchestra in a huge room with tons of dynamics you would hear a difference.

Michael-SW · Post by **Michael-SW** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:38 pm

frankie123 wrote:I posted this in another thread but figured it was appropriate. I compared outputted tracks in pro tools and ableton, they sound the same. Maybe under some EXTREME recording circumstances like recording an orchestra in a huge room with tons of dynamics you would hear a difference.

When recording stuff, it is your interface that does all the work. It spits out the ones and zeroes that makes up the resulting file.