MusicTech review: Live 6 lacks audio quality!!

aqua_tek · Post by **aqua_tek** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 1:55 am

Angstrom wrote:
aqua_tek wrote: anyways i havent read through the entire thread but has anyone considered something as simple as stretching/warping the necessary samples within live and then just boucning them to a new audio track?
Should work, right?
nope, I think perhaps you have misunderstood the issue.

All stretching and warping produces audible side effects (not just in Live, any time stretch)
So, if you used Lives stretch algo's and then rendered them to a wave you would just have a render with the same artefacts that were present in the 'Live' version. It's not the 'live' process which makes some extra noise it is the noise of the process. Like a phaser - it just makes that noise, you cant get around the noise by rendering the phaser !

'Offline' stretches and warps produce less noticable artefacts because the algo can take a bit more time over it. Live doesn't have anything like that at the moment.

ahhhhh gotcha. always good to learn something new. thanks

jasefos · Post by **jasefos** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 3:05 am

tomperson wrote: Unfortunately, if you turn off warping on your loops, you lose envelope information and you cannot make a clip loop. Quite annoying, if you ask me.

I agree with this also ...
Why does Live's design enforce disabling of CLips if not warped?
It's a strange choice.

Yes, follow actions achieve a similar end result of course (however messier on your Session view page).

Cheers

dmacintyre · Post by **dmacintyre** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 7:53 am

jasefos wrote:
tomperson wrote: Unfortunately, if you turn off warping on your loops, you lose envelope information and you cannot make a clip loop. Quite annoying, if you ask me.
I agree with this also ...
Why does Live's design enforce disabling of CLips if not warped?
It's a strange choice.

Yes, follow actions achieve a similar end result of course (however messier on your Session view page).

Cheers

That was going to be top of my wish list for an update. There is no reason why a clip can't loop, etc, when it's unwarped.

D.

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:40 am

Tarekith wrote:
melocoton wrote:But if your clip is at the same tempo as the session no warping will take place even if the warp button is turned on. This has been well documented and tested here on the forum in the past.
Just tested this via the phase cancellation test, and yes this appears to be true, for all warp modes EXCEPT Complex. If you use Complex Mode, the two files do not cancel. I want to test this some more though, as the source sample I was using was not really suitable for this.

Complex mode is an improvement sometimes, but it can negatively affects some songs and audio files too. I find that on some audio files, it really dulls the transients, or as The Phat Conductor says, is can give some vocals a weird quality.

LiveXXX · Post by **LiveXXX** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 9:17 am

"There is no reason why a clip can't loop, etc, when it's unwarped. "

I agree.. they should allow clips to loop unwarped... this would help a lot.

Coupe70 · Post by **Coupe70** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 9:40 am

i don´t know if this has been talked about here already, but as far as i know activated warping does not affect the sound at all unless you move a warp marker...

dmacintyre · Post by **dmacintyre** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 9:43 am

leisuremuffin wrote:
Tarekith wrote:
melocoton wrote:But if your clip is at the same tempo as the session no warping will take place even if the warp button is turned on. This has been well documented and tested here on the forum in the past.
Just tested this via the phase cancellation test, and yes this appears to be true, for all warp modes EXCEPT Complex. If you use Complex Mode, the two files do not cancel. I want to test this some more though, as the source sample I was using was not really suitable for this.

Complex mode is an improvement sometimes, but it can negatively affects some songs and audio files too. I find that on some audio files, it really dulls the transients, or as The Phat Conductor says, is can give some vocals a weird quality.

i think what leisuremuffin is pointing out is that if there is no tempo change the clip remains unwarped even if warp is turned on. I would still prefer the looping functionality,etc to work with warp switched-off as I have warp off by default (I use live as a traditional DAW and don't use warp tha much).

D.

dj superflat · Post by **dj superflat** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 4:01 pm

NOT TRUE. read the thread. even if you don't change from the tempo at which you recorded a loop, many of the warp modes will create artifacts (complex is particularly noticeable).

(fwiw, i can see why it might require warping in session view to permit various loops of various lengths all to be triggered at the right time and stay in sync regardless of all the flexibility the user has in terms of deciding what to do on the fly (which is different from (e.g.) defining a loop region in logic that stays fixed while you create loops therein).)

Pepehouse · Post by **Pepehouse** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 4:22 pm

Live is warping, warping is Live.

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:02 pm

dj superflat wrote:NOT TRUE. read the thread. even if you don't change from the tempo at which you recorded a loop, many of the warp modes will create artifacts (complex is particularly noticeable).

(fwiw, i can see why it might require warping in session view to permit various loops of various lengths all to be triggered at the right time and stay in sync regardless of all the flexibility the user has in terms of deciding what to do on the fly (which is different from (e.g.) defining a loop region in logic that stays fixed while you create loops therein).)

use repitch or beats.

if orig tempo matches set tempo, no problems.

do we have to go over this again and again and again <-----in robert smith voice.

.lm.

b0unce · Post by **b0unce** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:04 pm

you're not obliged to take part, pussymuffin. If you're tired of the topic let it go. Organise an open minded party or something.

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:10 pm

melocoton · Post by **melocoton** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:14 pm

b0unce wrote:If you're tired of the topic let it go. Organise an open minded party or something.

But the topic is over. Done. Finished. If people would actually bother to read the thread...

dj superflat · Post by **dj superflat** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:15 pm

he's not tired of the topic, he's tired of the fact that, every few pages, someone pops up to ask the very question just answered, and then receives misinformation in response. and that is tiresome.

melocoton · Post by **melocoton** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:24 pm

dj superflat wrote:he's not tired of the topic, he's tired of the fact that, every few pages, someone pops up to ask the very question just answered, and then receives misinformation in response. and that is tiresome.

Argh, ok. This thread is so tiresome that it has become kind of hard to follow!

even if you don't change from the tempo at which you recorded a loop, many of the warp modes will create artifacts (complex is particularly noticeable).

As far as I can tell Ingo settled this issue. A warped clip at the original tempo should sound identical in every mode except I guess for complex.

HOWEVER, when testing this, it's easy to do as I did and accidentally have the clips at a different tempo to the master because Live doesn't show the last couple of decimal places on the tempo. I think what happened for me is that I used tap tempo at some point when I created the clip so I had some strange fraction of a tempo. But then on the rendered clip it just shows the tempo as a whole number.

When in doubt use Beats.