Poll: Did you ever pirate Ableton?

[ruprecht]

Good, lets just agree to disagree then on that point. In time you'll come around. hehe

I would like to see what happens if you did this at www.KVRaudio.com The forum there has over 100,000 members and as I said before I think your results will be more accurate since you're not asking people to admit to stealing from KVR in their own forum.

You know you could post this little poll in software forums all over the internet, compare the results and have a pretty interesting and potentially groundbreaking paper to publish. Just a thought.

[dab]

Good, lets just agree to disagree then on that point. In time you'll come around. hehe

I would like to see what happens if you did this at www.KVRaudio.com The forum there has over 100,000 members and as I said before I think your results will be more accurate since you're not asking people to admit to stealing from KVR in their own forum.

This post would not last one day on any KVR forums...

[Nokatus]

You have to torture the facts pretty seriously (I mean REALLY seriously) to come out with a number under half a million dollars JUST FOR THIS FORUM. I think that's worth noting

You mean, torturing the facts in the sense of pointing out that a FORUM USER is not the same as an ABLETON LIVE USER ?

I am quite sure a large percentage of the registered usernames is something other than an actual Live user. Of course, this is just my gut feeling, but that's how it usually goes on forums like this. That's why I find it odd you're constantly referring specifically to the forum as a whole, active group of Live users. Either that or I missed something (I wouldn't be surprised)

[Jan Holm]

Anyhow, people who have some personal/political reason to deny these figures will always find a way to do so. Inconveniences as small as facts and math won't get in their way.
- Allison

I don't have any political issues here, I'm just finding it really
hard to see where youre going - the poll is is fun and.......well
thats about it.

Not all (far from) use product boards. For all we know there could
be 50.000 registered users and 100.000 pirates. The abes know
about the first number but no one knows about the amount of
pirate users.

You poll shows that some, presumably a lot of registered users
have used pirate versions. I still would love to hear your estimate
on the amount of "dark side" users.

[Allison Redhead]

You have to torture the facts pretty seriously (I mean REALLY seriously) to come out with a number under half a million dollars JUST FOR THIS FORUM. I think that's worth noting

You mean, torturing the facts in the sense of pointing out that a FORUM USER is not the same as an ABLETON LIVE USER ?

Read carefully. I never claimed this.

[Nokatus]

Read carefully. I never claimed this.

"We've got 182 responses from a population of 17050 registered users. 50%, as of this writing indicated they once pirated Ableton and now own it. That's a confidence level of 95% and a confidence interval of 7.23%. We can say then, of Ableton forum users, and with confidence level of 95%, 50% +/- 7.23% once pirated and then bought Ableton."

?

[Allison Redhead]

Read carefully. I never claimed this.

"We've got 182 responses from a population of 17050 registered users. 50%, as of this writing indicated they once pirated Ableton and now own it. That's a confidence level of 95% and a confidence interval of 7.23%. We can say then, of Ableton forum users, and with confidence level of 95%, 50% +/- 7.23% once pirated and then bought Ableton."

?

Yes, that's a legitimate bit of statistics. What's the issue?

I thought you were suggesting I was applying these figures to non-forum users- which I never claimed- at least I don't think I did, unless I typoed. To address the question of non-ableton users who are on here anyhow, well, there's a catagory for that, isn't there?

There's also one for people who used Ableton before, but stopped.

So what's your point exactly?

[Nokatus]

To address the question of non-ableton users who are on here anyhow, well, there's a catagory for that, isn't there?

I thought there really isn't one?

Your "I don't use Ableton Live" category is the same as your "prankster control" category. Someone who doesn't use Live doesn't necessarily think Alex is sexy and is (in my opinion) more likely to dismiss the poll as lacking than to answer using that final goofy option.

You seem to have insisted on keeping irrelevant details out of the relevant categories, yet you have made an analysis based on such? At least I thought your result "of forum users, one half once pirated Ableton and then bought it" seems way off. Here's where the darn common sense kicks in, like it or not. Unless, again, I have missed something I shouldn't have. No sarcasm here, I'm sure it's way possible.

Now, if it said "of those forum users who are also Live users..." this figure would sound much more sensible.

Given that the poll is posted under the subject of "Did you ever pirate Ableton?", and then not even a clear option of not using the application is given, you really can't draw a valid conclusion like this regarding the whole forum userbase. Adding a poll with the subject line "Do you use Ableton Live?" to control this would give you more accurate hard data of the actual percentage. Still, the forum users who aren't using Live are likely to be a more inactive bunch, although there might be numerous usernames created by them over time. Actually dealing with all of this -- that is, if you really want to give such a final statement on the whole forum userbase in the first place -- would make the result more valid.

(By the way, Ableton Live as a product is named in the same vein as Steinberg Cubase, Cakewalk Sonar and so on. I realise "Ableton" is still sometimes used interchangeably with the name of the product, but the actual application's name is indeed Live, the name of the company is Ableton )

[Allison Redhead]

To address the question of non-ableton users who are on here anyhow, well, there's a catagory for that, isn't there?

I thought there really isn't one?

Your "I don't use Ableton Live" category is the same as your "prankster control" category. Someone who doesn't use Live doesn't necessarily think Alex is sexy and is (in my opinion) more likely to dismiss the poll as lacking than to answer using that final goofy option.

You seem to have insisted on keeping irrelevant details out of the relevant categories, yet you have made an analysis based on such? At least I thought your result "of forum users, one half once pirated Ableton and then bought it" seems way off. Here's where the darn common sense kicks in, like it or not. Unless, again, I have missed something I shouldn't have. No sarcasm here, I'm sure it's way possible.

Now, if it said "of those forum users who are also Live users..." this figure would sound much more sensible.

Given that the poll is posted under the subject of "Did you ever pirate Ableton?", and then not even a clear option of not using the application is given, you really can't draw a valid conclusion like this regarding the whole forum userbase. Adding a poll with the subject line "Do you use Ableton Live?" to control this would give you more accurate hard data of the actual percentage. Still, the forum users who aren't using Live are likely to be a more inactive bunch, although there might be numerous usernames created by them over time. Actually dealing with all of this -- that is, if you really want to give such a final statement on the whole forum userbase in the first place -- would make the result more valid.

(By the way, Ableton Live as a product is named in the same vein as Steinberg Cubase, Cakewalk Sonar and so on. I realise "Ableton" is still sometimes used interchangeably with the name of the product, but the actual application's name is indeed Live, the name of the company is Ableton )

[Tarekith]

You guys are still arguing about this?

[Nokatus]

No arguing here, honest. I just recently noticed this and wondered about the result of "half of all the forum users once pirated Live and then bought it", and thought I might have missed something. Then I realised it really is a funny outcome out of that particular poll arrangement, that is, given the claimed reliability and the pedant tone and everything

Letting it rest now.

[djsentinel]

You guys are still arguing about this?

[sgingras]

Bought Live with the student discount when i was in school (ver. 4) Paid for the upgrades ever since. never used a cracked copy.

I recently got rid of ALL my cracked software for a combination of moral and practical reasons. As someone previously mentioned in the poll scarcity=creativity and creative problem solving. These last weeks have shown this to be 100% true in my case. (although Live 6's vastly increased abilities have help mucho)

Most of my cracks were for vst plugs that i rarely or never used anyways, but I still feel bad about having them. Just for the record I will own up to what I stole (yes, it IS stealing).

OT: kudos to LIVE 6 for being freakin awesome.

and yes, the arguments here leave me with the distinct feeling of watching an especially bad episode of Will and Grace.

" what is the sound of two ballsacks colliding?" there's something to argue about. go to it.

[Allison Redhead]

"what is the sound of two ballsacks colliding?" there's something to argue about. go to it.

*Splitch, Splitch* ??