ableton vocoder workgroup

peeddrroo · Post by **peeddrroo** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:34 pm

i wanted to create a vocoder using only ableton devices, but i'm not too sure i can do that on my own.
maybe we'll manage to do that with more brains.

so my basic idea was to create a rack with resonators, having 1 resonator per key.
so it would be resonator 1 <-> main note C3 <-> rack key chain note C3
resonator 2 <-> main note C#3 <-> key chain note C#3
etc....
i can't do that using audio racks, since they don't have midi key chain, so it's got to be an instrument rack.
i managed to create a stack of resonators mapped as i described in an instrument rack on a midi track. now my idea was to route an audio track to this rack, but i can't do that, since my midi track doesn't contain an instrument.

i hope you get the picture.

i think, one solution would be to have an instrument that let's audio play through when triggered. i didn't want to use third party plugins, but i think i can't avoid it.
do you guys have an idea os such a simple VSTi.

or if you have another solution, please contribute!
i really think a resonators vocoder would sound great.

forge · Post by **forge** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:53 pm

Hey P

what about if you tried using the keyboard to instead trigger dummy clips using remote mapping that automates the key of the resonator? it might use up more screen space, but I think you could at least that way have your vocoder that changes key when you press the keys on the keyboard

that doesnt really utilise the racks either, but I think it could work

Nixon · Post by **Nixon** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:53 pm

Cool! Making A vocoder with live plugs only is actually the first thing I tried when I got Live 6! I didn't think of resonators though..
A chorus, grain delay and a midi assigned simple delay with a reverb at the end of the chain goes somewhat into the right direction.
I will try the resonator later his evening! I will post if I can make something worthwhile

peeddrroo · Post by **peeddrroo** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:57 pm

@ forge:
i want to be able to play chords. i don't think using dummy clips would allow that.
plus i don't want to midi-map keys.
i really want to just set up a rack that would be playable like a synth.

peeddrroo · Post by **peeddrroo** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 3:02 pm

by the way, you wouldn't have to use dummy clips. just mapping the "Note" parameter of a resonator over a keyboard range would work i guess.
but that's not what' i'm after.

@Nixon: IMO the Grain Delay is much harder to control, it changes the sound too much, induces a delay and doesn't spread over the whole keyboard. but well, that's just my opinion. if somehing nice comes out of it, i might try it

Nixon · Post by **Nixon** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 3:04 pm

peeddrroo wrote:by the way, you wouldn't have to use dummy clips. just mapping the "Note" parameter of a resonator over a keyboard range would work i guess.
but that's not what' i'm after.

@Nixon: IMO the Grain Delay is much harder to control, it changes the sound too much, induces a delay and doesn't spread over the whole keyboard. but well, that's just my opinion. if somehing nice comes out of it, i might try it

true, but it depends on your usage if that matters

forge · Post by **forge** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 3:05 pm

peeddrroo wrote:@ forge:
i want to be able to play chords. i don't think using dummy clips would allow that.
plus i don't want to midi-map keys.
i really want to just set up a rack that would be playable like a synth.

yes I know but I dont think you'll be able to do it

if the clips were on seperate tracks you probably could

but maybe not even dummy clips

If you could be content to use one key for each chord and have premapped chords fro each chain then you could use the "chain" to select between them and assign macro 1 accross the whole keyboard - so each one key chooses a different position in the chain and thus a different resonator each time with a different chord

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:16 pm

P, it sounds like you're looking for the Ohmygod plugin by OhmForce. It's free on a lot (all?) of the ComputerMusic dvds, and it's a polyphonic resonator (which incidentally isn't a vocoder

) You can't buy it from OhmForce, but it's in all their bundles.

It's awesome, used to be my secret weapon.

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:23 pm

you couln't do a "vocoder" using only live devices - because how would you 'measure' and then 'apply' the band levels?

a vocoder takes a series of bandpass filters across an input and measures the levels of those bands - it then uses those levels to modulate another set of bandpass levels across the 'slave'.

resonators sound vaguely similar in some circumstances but work completely differently

John Sweet · Post by **John Sweet** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 8:21 pm

But is the goal here to map the resonators' controls so the intervals of each can be "played" as they respond to the input? If the pitch of the input didn't change (like singing a line of all C's instead of a melody) but each resonator was tuned, I think it might feel like a vocoder.

forge · Post by **forge** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 3:18 am

yeah I think you could "emulate" a vocoder in only Live using resonator

it wouldnt be the same but it could definitely have a similar effect

but you would have to be content to use one key on the keyboard to trigger pre-mapped chords