ot..... VOTE Republican in November. Protect America

[Tone Deft]

there have been at least 5 instances where McCain confused Shiite with Sunni while talking about Iraq, he's an imbecile.

he's also claimed that "he doesn't know enough about economics" as he should, which is honorable to admit but a fact is a fact, wrong man for the job.

his family has fought in ever war since WWI, war mongers.


10 more things you should know about John McCain (but probably don't):

1. John McCain voted against establishing a national holiday in honor of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Now he says his position has "evolved," yet he's continued to oppose key civil rights laws.1

2. According to Bloomberg News, McCain is more hawkish than Bush on Iraq, Russia and China. Conservative columnist Pat Buchanan says McCain "will make Cheney look like Gandhi."2
3. His reputation is built on his opposition to torture, but McCain voted against a bill to ban waterboarding, and then applauded President Bush for vetoing that ban.3

4. McCain opposes a woman's right to choose. He said, "I do not support Roe versus Wade. It should be overturned."4

5. The Children's Defense Fund rated McCain as the worst senator in Congress for children. He voted against the children's health care bill last year, then defended Bush's veto of the bill.5

6. He's one of the richest people in a Senate filled with millionaires. The Associated Press reports he and his wife own at least eight homes! Yet McCain says the solution to the housing crisis is for people facing foreclosure to get a "second job" and skip their vacations.6

7. Many of McCain's fellow Republican senators say he's too reckless to be commander in chief. One Republican senator said: "The thought of his being president sends a cold chill down my spine. He's erratic. He's hotheaded. He loses his temper and he worries me."7

8. McCain talks a lot about taking on special interests, but his campaign manager and top advisers are actually lobbyists. The government watchdog group Public Citizen says McCain has 59 lobbyists raising money for his campaign, more than any of the other presidential candidates.8

9. McCain has sought closer ties to the extreme religious right in recent years. The pastor McCain calls his "spiritual guide," Rod Parsley, believes America's founding mission is to destroy Islam, which he calls a "false religion." McCain sought the political support of right-wing preacher John Hagee, who believes Hurricane Katrina was God's punishment for gay rights and called the Catholic Church "the Antichrist" and a "false cult."9

10. He positions himself as pro-environment, but he scored a 0—yes, zero—from the League of Conservation Voters last year.10

Sources:
1. "The Complicated History of John McCain and MLK Day," ABC News, April 3, 2008
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch ... cated.html

"McCain Facts," ColorOfChange.org, April 4, 2008
http://colorofchange.org/mccain_facts/

2. "McCain More Hawkish Than Bush on Russia, China, Iraq," Bloomberg News, March 12, 2008
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... M&refer=us

"Buchanan: John McCain 'Will Make Cheney Look Like Gandhi,'" ThinkProgress, February 6, 2008
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/02/06/buc ... hi-mccain/

3. "McCain Sides With Bush On Torture Again, Supports Veto Of Anti-Waterboarding Bill," ThinkProgress, February 20, 2008
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/02/20/mcc ... ture-veto/

4. "McCain says Roe v. Wade should be overturned," MSNBC, February 18, 2007
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17222147/

5. "2007 Children's Defense Fund Action Council® Nonpartisan Congressional Scorecard," February 2008
http://www.childrensdefense.org/site/Pa ... recard2007

"McCain: Bush right to veto kids health insurance expansion," CNN, October 3, 2007
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/10/03/ ... interview/

6. "Beer Executive Could Be Next First Lady," Associated Press, April 3, 2008
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5h-S1 ... gD8VQ86M80

"McCain Says Bank Bailout Should End `Systemic Risk,'" Bloomberg News, March 25, 2008
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... refer=home

7. "Will McCain's Temper Be a Liability?," Associated Press, February 16, 2008
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=4301022

"Famed McCain temper is tamed," Boston Globe, January 27, 2008
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/artic ... _is_tamed/

8. "Black Claims McCain's Campaign Is Above Lobbyist Influence: 'I Don't Know What The Criticism Is,'" ThinkProgress, April 2, 2008
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/02/mcc ... -lobbyist/

"McCain's Lobbyist Friends Rally 'Round Their Man," ABC News, January 29, 2008
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4210251

9. "McCain's Spiritual Guide: Destroy Islam," Mother Jones Magazine, March 12, 2008
http://www.motherjones.com/washington_d ... guide.html

"Will McCain Specifically 'Repudiate' Hagee's Anti-Gay Comments?," ThinkProgress, March 12, 2008
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/03/12/mcc ... -anti-gay/

"McCain 'Very Honored' By Support Of Pastor Preaching 'End-Time Confrontation With Iran,'" ThinkProgress, February 28, 2008
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/02/28/hag ... dorsement/
10. "John McCain Gets a Zero Rating for His Environmental Record," Sierra Club, February 28, 2008
http://www.alternet.org/blogs/environment/77913/

[mdk]

oh hello. one of these again.

i find it very sad (as in creating a deep sense of melancholy) that still in the 21st century we spend so much time and energy debating / arguing between two non-choices.

republican / democrat

labour / conservative

its all the fucking same. corporations first. people last.

what is it about us humans that makes us fall into this trap of narrowly focused comparatives? are we just stupid?

do we really want to continue to support the dominance of psychopathy over *our* planet?

[jesso]

America unfortunately is a very sick place. Something big is going to have to happen there in the next ? years. I think things will get better eventually, but things will get a lot worse before people realize whats actually important, and move away from their unhealthy, unsustainable, blinkered lifestyles.... To many Americans the rest of the world doesn't matter a f*ck.
Its all about "we gotta keep people out, we gotta keep ourselves safe, we gotta protect our lifestyles, we gotta carry big guns"
This actually has the opposite effect. Fear breeds fear. Wars don't work. War on crime, war on terror, war on drugs, none of it works.
America is like a very depressed self obsessed paranoid greedy egomaniac.
When a person like that has a nervous breakdown, they often come out of it a much better person, see the errors of their ways, become more compassionate and actually think about what effects their actions will have on others.
The breakdown has to happen first though.

[mdk]

or they commit suicide.

[Tone Deft]

oh hello. one of these again.

i find it very sad (as in creating a deep sense of melancholy) that still in the 21st century we spend so much time and energy debating / arguing between two non-choices.

republican / democrat

labour / conservative

its all the fucking same. corporations first. people last.

what is it about us humans that makes us fall into this trap of narrowly focused comparatives? are we just stupid?

do we really want to continue to support the dominance of psychopathy over *our* planet?

fuck yourself. like Macedonia really has it figured out? your shithole little country has barely got its act together, you're children on the international scene, most of the world doesn't even know you exist. fuck you for throwing rocks at my country. yep, that's a dick thing to write but you're being a judgmental little prick. Macedonia - a fucking joke, you want to tell it like it is, there ya go. if you can't tell the difference between McCain and the democratic candidates you're too brainwashed my your own fear mongered media. ooooh you're so counter-culture and above it all. fuck you and the shit hole you live in.

jesso - where are you from?

[mdk]

yeah. nationalism. nice one mate.

[Tone Deft]

you want to shit on my country but I can't shit on yours? fuck yourself. your country is shit, admit it. I don't like getting personal with you, you're a nice guy, I like hearing about what's up where you are, but fuck this, step up or shut up, mate.

[mdk]

your country is shit, admit it.

thats the whole point. they're pretty much all shit. uk, usa, macedonia etc...

now go and do some yoga or something. you need to relax.

[Tone Deft]

your country is shit, admit it.

thats the whole point. they're pretty much all shit. uk, usa, macedonia etc...

now go and do some yoga or something. you need to relax.

just taking the piss, wasting time waiting for a phone call.

really, you can piss on my country but dude, I know your people have got it ROUGH, you want to look in MY backyard? well, we know you're still cleaning yours up. no offense, I wish you well.

I dunno man, there's good and bad, I don't believe in making blanket statements like that. definitely the governments are all fucked up, assholes go for leadership roles. then there's the people, the art, the music, the land, all that stuff that's generally good.

we gotta get out of the Bush years, these are really bad times.

[mdk]

really, you can piss on my country but dude, I know your people have got it ROUGH, you want to look in MY backyard? well, we know you're still cleaning yours up. no offense, I wish you well.

thanks. although im actually british. so i have 2 backyards that need cleaning. good job i live in an apartment or id have another one on top of that.

[glu]

oh hello. one of these again.

i find it very sad (as in creating a deep sense of melancholy) that still in the 21st century we spend so much time and energy debating / arguing between two non-choices.

republican / democrat

labour / conservative

its all the fucking same. corporations first. people last.

what is it about us humans that makes us fall into this trap of narrowly focused comparatives? are we just stupid?

do we really want to continue to support the dominance of psychopathy over *our* planet?

well, I am an American and I agree with the above rhetorical questions.

It's really a non-choice once you realize that a vote in this election is a
vote for elite capital accumulation and further dispossession of the poor.

Using the discourse of democracy masks domination, and like mdk said,
we are going to continue to support dominance as long as we engage
this system by voting- it only further legitimizes the illegitimate monopolization
of normative violence. All candidates have used strong words promising
to further escalate state violence in the middle east.

and fuck nationalist hubris

[Tone Deft]

I'm getting tired of that pseudo line of thinking...

don't vote - that gets nothing done. cry about it all you want, it's an ignorant position.

there is a difference between democrat and republican. narrow minded conspiracy theorists make blanket statements like that. yes, the system is corrupt, EVERY government is corrupt. it's like complaining that ice cream is cold.

"fuck national hubris" - oooh that's so counter culture, hubris is a strong word. fuck that. I live in a great city, love this place, I'd be a spoiled asshole for not acknowledging that, and that extends to the bay area, California and the US. I love it here.

this is my line of thinking - if you have nice things in life and don't take a moment to be thankful for those things, you're a spoiled brat.

besides glu, you're welcome to leave anytime you want, show me a country that lives up to your standards, and move there.

/we're just talking politics, right? politics amongst friends, this my line of thinking. be thankful for what you got. non-participation is government is the quickest way to a corrupt government.

[glu]

I'm getting to tired of that pseudo line of thinking...

don't vote - that gets nothing done fuck that pseudo intellectual line of thinking. cry about it all you want, it's an ignorant position.

there is a difference between democrat and republican. narrow minded conspiracy theorists make blanket statements like that. yes, the system is corrupt, EVERY government is corrupt. it's like complaining that ice cream is cold.

"fuck national hubris" - oooh that's so counter culture, hubris is a strong word. fuck that. I live in a great fucking city, love this place, I'd be a spoiled asshole for not acknowledging that, and that extends to the bay area, California and the US.

this is my line of thinking - if you have nice things in life and don't take a moment to be thankful for those things, you're a spoiled brat.

besides glu, you're welcome to leave anytime you want, show me a country that lives up to your standards, and move there.

/we're just talking politics, right? politics amongst friends, this my line of thinking. be thankful for what you got. non-participation is government is the quickest way to a corrupt government.

I love your city to... I got all teary-eye last time I left SF; Austin is about the only city in Texas I like. I miss Cali. Loving where you live isn't nationalist hubris.

As for the presidential election, there are far better ways of practicing social democracy than voting. The system is broken and voting will not fix it.
But until all these micro-social movements decide that they need an overarching
thesis- nothing will change. Voting is compliance, it is not democracy.

I am a strong believer in social democracy, which is why I bother to post in
political threads. Sorry about the hubris comment, I was just a little shocked
at the "fuck your country" speak. I do think that hubris is getting in the way
of real change. I also think voting is getting in the way of real change as well.
It obviously poses a problem, seeing as though the end goal is a fair democracy.
but like i said, it will not happen by way of voting. Capitalism and democracy
had a 'de facto' agreement throughout most of the Fordist era, but since the
financialization of the global economy, capital wealth has been accumulated by
dispossession, and it will continue to do so regardless of whether McCain,
Clinton, or Obama win the election. There is no conspiracy here, it is very
evident, probably more to those outside the US.

The ignorant position? I am reluctant to support any candidate who promises
more state violence and uses discourses of democracy to do so. Fuck that.
Yeah, I cannot wait for Bush to leave office, but I guaranfuckingtee that he
will be high-fiving the president-elect upon leaving office.

agree, talking politics with internet friends. Enjoy your day!

[Tone Deft]

I got a little strong earlier, just killing time waiting for my monome case. (yay!) I just pushed back where I was being pushed, criticize my country, look at your own. meh, politics. still waiting to hear from that genius jesso.

we're given at birth a great country to live in, appreciate that. there's a big shit sandwich that comes along with this country in particular but would you rather eat the Macedonia shit sandwich (that's some heavy shit), or France, or England, or Australia? New Zealand sounds amazing but I respect it too much to consider polluting its water with my American blood.

ultimately my view is that it's not even worth having kids. I think things will change, but that's easy, Bush is such a twat doing egregiously WRONG things, a return to the normal corruption will be a breathe of fresh air. EVERY president has done creepy, wrong things.



so... what to do about it? dunno man, I'm going to go take a walk, get a burrito, open the Cov Ops contest set, play some GTA and enjoy my day. but I'm also going to vote Obama and rant to people against McCain and give my rants that Hillary and Obama are pretty much the same, we just need to get lefties out to vote. I could get active locally but I don't enjoy politics, just the banter amongst the people I work with (a mix of far left and far right creeps) and this forum where people like you glu have made me THINK about this stuff. sometimes I write stupid stuff just to hear how it gets ground up by the forum. I do look for weak spots in my understanding.

anyway, that guy with my monome case bailed, oh well, there's always monday. nice day out!

[djadonis206]

oh hello. one of these again.

i find it very sad (as in creating a deep sense of melancholy) that still in the 21st century we spend so much time and energy debating / arguing between two non-choices.

republican / democrat

labour / conservative

its all the fucking same. corporations first. people last.

what is it about us humans that makes us fall into this trap of narrowly focused comparatives? are we just stupid?

do we really want to continue to support the dominance of psychopathy over *our* planet?

well, I am an American and I agree with the above rhetorical questions.

It's really a non-choice once you realize that a vote in this election is a
vote for elite capital accumulation and further dispossession of the poor.

Using the discourse of democracy masks domination, and like mdk said,
we are going to continue to support dominance as long as we engage
this system by voting- it only further legitimizes the illegitimate monopolization
of normative violence. All candidates have used strong words promising
to further escalate state violence in the middle east.

and fuck nationalist hubris

While you talk down about capitalism, democracy, and monopolization you're enjoying all the fruits and privileges of capitalism, democracy and monopolization

fyi there are no true monopolies in the world - just an fyi

----

did it ever occur to you the system is working, working so well you don't even notice it

it's a hard pill to swallow but it's true