'General' Forum Split?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
forge
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Post by forge » Sat Oct 21, 2006 10:44 pm

Astral Fridge Magnet wrote:
forge wrote:
Astral Fridge Magnet wrote: So then, I guess that a patient in a mental asylum who believes he is Jesus Christ, Napoleon or whoever, and tells you that, then really must be that/those person/people according to you.
now we're getting a bit abstract

you know what he (and I) meant! :P :lol:

I guess you think I am being too literal or pedantic (probably a consequence of my studies during my university years). Maybe I am, but I still maintain my point that loads of people use the term musician too loosely. So excuse me if you think I am being too pompous about this issue, but I am sticking to my guns with this one.
well let's agree to disagree

really, if someone wants to call themselves a "musician" where is the problem? Most "DJ"s call themselves DJs, and really the people you're talking about with wav loops etc probably would call themselves "producers"

in my experience the only people who call themselves musicians are the ones who either are or aspire to be

I have also met a million people who can only play smoke on the water or stairway to heaven and I dont think I would ever have heard one of them call themselves a musician

so why does it bother you? Are you really concerned that it will somehow make you look bad? seriously the proof is in the pudding, if you are any good people wont give a crap what you call yourself, and they certainly wont be put off by any strange delusional who calls himself a musician who can only play smoke on the water

hacktheplanet
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Post by hacktheplanet » Sat Oct 21, 2006 11:01 pm

I wholly endorse this product/service.
Image

mercyplease
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Post by mercyplease » Sat Oct 21, 2006 11:06 pm

Can we have an Akai mpc 4000 section?

Im getting one

:twisted:
HA HA HA :twisted:

style_riser
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Post by style_riser » Sat Oct 21, 2006 11:28 pm

May be we should have an OT only week? That way ableton teem would have to do a split.
Power to the people!!!

franknputer
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Post by franknputer » Sat Oct 21, 2006 11:42 pm

b0unce wrote: have you got something against tabbed browsing ? would it really bother you that much to seperate the non-music stuff into a new tab ? ...and obviously youtube videos of music related stuff isnt a problem.....but theres a fucking huge amount of candid-cameraesque muck floating around here - that would be better suited for another OT tab on your browser, should that be what you want to do.
Wow, nice chip on your shoulder. :? You don't address anything I said, but to tell me that I should use tabbed browsing (which I do, thanks) instead? Amazing insight. Really. :idea:

My point was that I don't mind having more than just technical stuff around, because it is interesting to me. You don't have to agree - but does it really bother you that much to ignore the stuff you don't want to read, & only discuss what you deem relevant? Must everyone here conform to your idea of what is appropriate discussion. or can the rest of us simply have a chat now and then?

Personally, I'd rather Ableton worry about their software more than their forum.

b0unce
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Post by b0unce » Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:04 am

franknputer wrote:Must everyone here conform to your idea of what is appropriate discussion.
yes
franknputer wrote:can the rest of us simply have a chat now and then?
no
spreader of butter

Hypomixolydian
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Post by Hypomixolydian » Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:32 am

forge wrote:
well let's agree to disagree
Sure, though I don't mind a friendly argument as long as it stays that way. Though I still maintain that many people use the term musician too loosely. However, I don't particularly want to get into a bickering session about it. There is enough crap that happens on this forum, so lets not add to it.

forge wrote:
............really, if someone wants to call themselves a "musician" where is the problem?
so why does it bother you? Are you really concerned that it will somehow make you look bad?

Actually, I am not in the least bothered if someone wants to call themself a musician (even if they use the term loosely-there are loads of deluded people in this world, so why should I care?), or concerned about looking "bad", though I don't know what makes you think why it would make me look bad. I wrote what I wrote only to challenge an earlier definition of what makes a musician. I am guilty for going off on a bit of a tangent seeing this thread is really about organising this forum better, which I hope will happen.

forge wrote:
Most "DJ"s call themselves DJs, and really the people you're talking about with wav loops etc probably would call themselves "producers"............................................

I have also met a million people who can only play smoke on the water or stairway to heaven and I dont think I would ever have heard one of them call themselves a musician


I, on the other hand, have met quite a few people you've just described who would classify themselves as musicians. I just can't agree they are.

At the end of the day, it doesn't really, matter. The proof is in the pudding.

One final point. you said:
forge wrote:
in my experience the only people who call themselves musicians are the ones who either are or aspire to be
Aspiring to be something doesn't actually mean that you are the thing you aspire to be. I, for example, aspire (yearn, desire, hope) to be a successful stand-up comedian (not really true by the way), but I am not.

Fuck I can be so pedantic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My apologies if I am beginning to annoy you. On my part at least, this is just friendly debate and nothing more. Please don't take it to heart.

forge
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Post by forge » Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:36 am

Astral Fridge Magnet wrote:


Fuck I can be so pedantic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My apologies if I am beginning to annoy you. On my part at least, this is just friendly debate and nothing more. Please don't take it to heart.
well in fairness I've been just as pedantic and helped get the thread of course just as much! :D
Astral Fridge Magnet wrote: though I don't know what makes you think why it would make me look bad.
well only because I cant see why else it would bother you if the term is somehow "cheapened" or whatever - I mean it does seem a tad elitist to care whether the lowly beginners call themselve's musicians :wink:

Nogi
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Post by Nogi » Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:41 am

Astral Fridge Magnet wrote:
Nogi wrote:
For my money, a musician is anyone that believes it when say they are a musician. Further, I accept without prejudice ones assertion of purpose. Therefore, anyone that tells me they are a musician, is. All that other nonsense is for the marketing department to sort out.
So then, I guess that a patient in a mental asylum who believes he is Jesus Christ, Napoleon or whoever, and tells you that, then really must be that/those person/people according to you.
Saying you are Napoleon (whether it's true or not) isn't a statement of purpose or intent, it is a statement of identity and very much subject to refute. However, it is a matter of self-consistency to respect another's right to 'be' as they choose, even in the sometimes absurd absence of what you demand; prevailing evidence, conventional skill or a conferred rank, class, title, etc...

leisuremuffin
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Post by leisuremuffin » Sun Oct 22, 2006 2:12 am

mercyplease wrote:Can we have an Akai mpc 4000 section?

Im getting one

:twisted:
don't do it. it's not the same as the 2000. They managed to fuck up the OS and it's not nearly as elegant to work with. I wanted one when they came out, cause i used to use a 2000xl and a rackmount sampler. I figured the 4000 would replace both of those. However, upon demoing it, i found that a lot of the things that i loved about the 2000's sequencer were gone or just didn't work as well.


.lm.
TimeableFloat ???S?e?n?d?I?n?f?o

mooncaine
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Post by mooncaine » Sun Oct 22, 2006 2:22 am

Yeah, there should be a forum for off-topic stuff but a different one for Ableton-related stuff.

forge
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Post by forge » Sun Oct 22, 2006 2:28 am

wel this is about the 800th thread on this topic and it's at 9 pages

although the forum's been quite boring lately - then in response a bunch of OT threads popped up, then in response to those this thread popped up

and so the cycle continues

Hypomixolydian
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Post by Hypomixolydian » Sun Oct 22, 2006 2:37 am

Nogi wrote:
Astral Fridge Magnet wrote:
Nogi wrote:
For my money, a musician is anyone that believes it when say they are a musician. Further, I accept without prejudice ones assertion of purpose. Therefore, anyone that tells me they are a musician, is. All that other nonsense is for the marketing department to sort out.
So then, I guess that a patient in a mental asylum who believes he is Jesus Christ, Napoleon or whoever, and tells you that, then really must be that/those person/people according to you.
Saying you are Napoleon (whether it's true or not) isn't a statement of purpose or intent, it is a statement of identity and very much subject to refute. However, it is a matter of self-consistency to respect another's right to 'be' as they choose, even in the sometimes absurd absence of what you demand; prevailing evidence, conventional skill or a conferred rank, class, title, etc...
Well, seeing I have come this far with this discussion, I may as well continue. Also, please Nogi let me explain (as I did to Forge), that I am not looking for a fight. I just see this as a friendly debate and I mean no ill feeling.
My Napoleon example was meant figuratively rather than literally. I was disputing when you said:
Nogi wrote:
For my money, a musician is anyone that believes it when say they are a musician............Therefore, anyone that tells me they are a musician, is.
To paraphrase something I said earlier. To believe to be something doesn't actually mean that you are the thing you believe to be. I, for example, could believe that I am an extremely funny person and have the talent to be a successful stand-up comedian. I could tell this to everyone that I meet totally convinced what I think is true. In reality though, I am at best mildly funny on occassions and certainly not good enough to be a stand up comedian. Despite what I may presume, the fact of the matter is that I am deluding myself and therefore not really what I believe to be.

forge wrote:
I mean it does seem a tad elitist to care whether the lowly beginners call themselve's musicians :wink:
At the end of the day, I don't really care. I was really only just challenging a point. I don't mean to come across as elitist. Or am I deluding myself? Maybe I am being elitist, but just don't see it.

Shit, I think I am spending too much time on this discussion, but you got me going now.

Nogi
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Post by Nogi » Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:58 am

Astral Fridge Magnet wrote: ...Despite what I may presume, the fact of the matter is that I am deluding myself and therefore not really what I believe to be.

At the end of the day, I don't really care. I was really only just challenging a point. I don't mean to come across as elitist. Or am I deluding myself? Maybe I am being elitist, but just don't see it.
Firstly, I understand and appreciate the tone of your arguments so no harm here.

Most tasks of magnitude would never begin, continue or end without the art of delusion. And, I, for one, think you are hilarious. :P

Back to work.

forge
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Post by forge » Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:59 am

Astral Fridge Magnet wrote:
To paraphrase something I said earlier. To believe to be something doesn't actually mean that you are the thing you believe to be. I, for example, could believe that I am an extremely funny person and have the talent to be a successful stand-up comedian. I could tell this to everyone that I meet totally convinced what I think is true. In reality though, I am at best mildly funny on occassions and certainly not good enough to be a stand up comedian. Despite what I may presume, the fact of the matter is that I am deluding myself and therefore not really what I believe to be.

forge wrote:
I mean it does seem a tad elitist to care whether the lowly beginners call themselve's musicians :wink:
At the end of the day, I don't really care. I was really only just challenging a point. I don't mean to come across as elitist. Or am I deluding myself? Maybe I am being elitist, but just don't see it.

Shit, I think I am spending too much time on this discussion, but you got me going now.
:lol:

he he...now I'll reply again too and so it goes on :wink:

what you seem to be talking about sounds a bit more like some kind of mental illness, in which case you must know alot of nutters! :lol:

the example you gave kind of illustrates the pointlessness of being botherd by the titles being misused even better! :P

really, if you were the said person wanting to ba a stand up then it would depend how long you were prepared to be booed off stage before you gave up and acknowledged that you cant cut it - and the same for a muso

in fact in both of those cases BECAUSE they are performance oriented career paths it's pretty easy to find out pretty early in your career how rubbish you are because the audience will let you know that, even if only by walking and showing no interest ever

if someone is rubbish and still carries on believing in themselves despite no audience ever appreciating them then in a way good luck to them and they deserve the honorary title as much as anyone, they just might need the additional prefix of "crap"

but a "crap stand up" is still a stand up!

and anyone who wouldnt be prepared to take it that far or even to the stage at all probably wouldnt call themselves either of those titles for long without giving up and becoming an accountant or something instead because it takes alot to keep getting up in front of an audience that thinks you are crap

and the audience could be online or records/CD buyers whatever

christ the music industry is one of the worst and most infuriating industries to try and exist in for any length of time, I dont think any of us really consciously choose it - it's like a debilitating illness that can ruin your whole life wasting money on equipment to help you make that pointless tune that wont make you any money or see the light of day beyond a few listens on myspace - I say that as someone who has played guitar for about 20 years so I could be called a musician I reckon!

maybe the ones you are talking about are the people who audition for the "idol" game shows and dont realise there's no real prestige in music - people seem to be drawn to it like moths to a light bulb because they think it is all groupies and limousines, a fast wealthy exciting life - but the people who get that arent the majority of the sad cases working in the music industry - look at any of the top ten artists from the last 10-20 years and a staggering percentage now are probably real estate agents

but even then they'd probably call themselves a "singer" and the producers would see them more like a teen magazine model but call them the vague title of "artist"

I dont know I'm doubtful there really is any significant group of people out there who can only play smoke on the water or stairway and actually tell everyone they ARE a musician (as opposed to "want to be") their bluff would be called too easily

[/cynical rant]

:lol:

No I didnt intend to write this much either, but it seemed a bit more interesting than talking splitting the bloody forum for the 500 millionth time

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