'General' Forum Split?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
franknputer
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Post by franknputer » Fri Oct 20, 2006 6:30 pm

bip wrote:
franknputer wrote:
bip wrote: ehm.... actually not, it would be perfect! :wink:

making music is not boring
No, but making art is not only about your software. :wink:
yes, of course.... you're right

but making music is also about making music (i feel philosopher today) :wink:

what i wanted to say is that an OT section would be great, for those who want to read the posts (me included from time to time) ....
and those who don't want to can discuss only about software, hardware, instruments, connections data transfer protocols....synchronisations and bla bla....
I've spent a lot of time on Craig Anderton's forum (some of you should know that name, I suspect) and his position - which I agree with - is basically this: being an artist, one is concerned with the world around them. This means politics, comedy, everyday life, boredom, love, etc. etc. - NOT just jabbering on endlessly about the tools of the trade. Yes, there is that aspect - but often times these issues are quickly resolved, and once they are they can be searched for (I always try to do that before asking for help).

But a place where nothing was discussed except computer specs, MIDI, plugins, and Live would be a freaking bore, and many people would not return if that were all to be gleaned from being here, unless they had a specific problem - and then, who might be hanging around to help?

Sure, the political crap is bubbling up right now - but it's a very political world right now too, and in the US the elections are only a couple weeks away. I suspect that in another month the balance will tip away from politics, save for those few who can't tear themselves away from the subject.

YouTube...is a very popular place on the Net right now. One thing about it, aside from all the silly stuff on there, is that it has an enormous amount of video footage of musicians - wow, relevance! Or should links to old performances be banned too?

Still, the ability to drive this forum is largely in the hands of those who populate it. If you want more techy discussions, post to the techy threads & they will rise up. Have those discussions, and when enough people join in they will dominate. It's really that simple. An OT forum is fine - but you will segregate people away from each other, which ultimately weakens the community.
Last edited by franknputer on Fri Oct 20, 2006 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

b0unce
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Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:16 pm

Post by b0unce » Fri Oct 20, 2006 6:31 pm

it would be great to click on the general forum, and 99% of the content would be about audio/performing - stuff pertaining to music, music making...

and not be bombarded with thread titles about peadophiles , snipers, democrats , my wife left me, I smoked cocaine, etc...whether you join the discussion or not the mere suggestion is really annoying at this stage.
spreader of butter

franknputer
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Post by franknputer » Fri Oct 20, 2006 6:33 pm

God forbid that you should ever have to be in close proximity to something that you find annoying. Let me know when you figure that one out.

b0unce
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Post by b0unce » Fri Oct 20, 2006 6:33 pm

franknputer wrote: I've spent a lot of time on Craig Anderton's forum (some of you should know that name, I suspect) and his position - which I agree with - is basically this: being an artist, one is concerned with the world around them. This means politics, comedy, everyday life, boredom, love, etc. etc. - NOT just jabbering on endlessly about the tools of the trade. Yes, there is that aspect - but often times these issues are quickly resolved, and once they are they can be searched for (I always try to do that before asking for help).

But a place where nothing was discussed except computer specs, MIDI, plugins, and Live would be a freaking bore, and many people would not return if that were all to be gleaned from being here, unless they had a specific problem - and then, who might be hanging around to help?

Sure, the political crap is bubbling up right now - but it's a very political world right now too, and in the US the elections are only a couple weeks away. I suspect that in another month the balance will tip away from politics, save for those few who can't tear themselves away from the subject.

YouTube...is a very popular place on the Net right now. One thing about it, aside from all the silly stuff on there, is that it has an enormous amount of video footage of musicians - wow, relevance! Or should links to old performances be banned too?

Still, the ability to drive this forum is largely in the hands of those who populate it. If you want more techy discussions, post to the techy threads & they will rise up. Have those discussions, and when enough people join in they will dominate. It's really that simple. An OT forum is fine - but you will segregate people away from each other, which ultimately weakens the community.
have you got something against tabbed browsing ? would it really bother you that much to seperate the non-music stuff into a new tab ? ...and obviously youtube videos of music related stuff isnt a problem.....but theres a fucking huge amount of candid-cameraesque muck floating around here - that would be better suited for another OT tab on your browser, should that be what you want to do.
spreader of butter

joesapo
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Post by joesapo » Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:11 pm

why do you think that people would not visit the OT section?
I know I wouldn't. I come to the Live forums to talk about Live... but when I see an OT that interests me, I chime in.

If all the OTs were segregated to another board, way less people would see them, way less people would respond and therefore way less people would post there. And then we'd be back where we started.

Besides, how boring would the General board be if every other post where "What soundcard should I get?" and "THE EDIT BUTTON'S GONE!!!" 8O

joesapo
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Post by joesapo » Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:13 pm

.....to add to my previous comment.

I DO think it would be a good idea for a mod to be able to add an OT prefix or something to genuine off topic threads... Not doing so is annoying.

b0unce
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Post by b0unce » Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:18 pm

:lol: oh right...so its the prefix or lack therof that bugs you :roll:
spreader of butter

signal
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Post by signal » Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:19 pm

leisuremuffin wrote:i'm sorry, but the idea that OT posts are pushing usefull information off the screen is silly. First of all, *most* of the posts here are on topic, so on topic posts push stuff off the page more than OT posts.....3rdly, once you find the topic you want to discuss, posting in it brings it back to the top of the screen.
Read my post again. What I said is that relevant threads are pushed out of immediate sight more quickly than if the OT clutter were localized elsewhere. Of course, posting in a thread brings it back to the top. Again, not the point. Wading through OT stuff to even "find the topic you want to discuss" on page 2 or 3 gets a little tiresome. Clearly, it's not the end of the world, but neither is having a dedicated OT forum.

This isn't the turf war that people are making it out to be. To repeat, no one is suggesting a ban of anything. Just an extension of the thread categorization that is already in place to include a section for OT.

djadonis206
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Post by djadonis206 » Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:23 pm

So instead of even a new OT tab

how about people just title their threads clearly?

instead of ambigous titles with relevant information regarding music or ableton, they get to the point of what is they are asking or saying in the title rightr away?

but see, that gets into self moderation, which I believe is one of the goals of this "open" market forum (it's been said by people from Ableton)

So, yeah - post what you mean to say right away, no more wading, swimming or anything like that

also - I've had good results with the search function when it comes to getting a quick answer
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leisuremuffin
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Post by leisuremuffin » Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:34 pm

signal wrote:
leisuremuffin wrote:i'm sorry, but the idea that OT posts are pushing usefull information off the screen is silly. First of all, *most* of the posts here are on topic, so on topic posts push stuff off the page more than OT posts. Second of all, nothing is lost, use google to search through the forum for what you're looking for. 3rdly, once you find the topic you want to discuss, posting in it brings it back to the top of the screen.
Read my post again. What I said is that relevant threads are pushed out of immediate sight more quickly than if the OT clutter were localized elsewhere. Of course, posting in a thread brings it back to the top. Again, not the point. Wading through OT stuff to even "find the topic you want to discuss" on page 2 or 3 gets a little tiresome. .

read *my* post again ----> MOST of the posts are on topic. Those are the ones that push things down the page. NOT the handfull of hot OT threads that stay at the top because people are talking in them. go have a look for yourself. More on topic posts than OT. About %75 on topic. (and this is a *bad* couple of days) Now, go look at the on topic posts, how many of them are not being answered because of OT posts? zero. If people are interested in an on topic thread, and keep posting in it, it will be near the top, that's just how it is. If it is a simple question, it'll get answered or RTFM'd (or more likely both) and go away.


This is all a question of aesthetics, NOT funcionality.


EDITed -----> to reinsert the part of my op about "nothing being lost" and using >google< (much better than the forums search fuction. You know how to use google to search within only a particular site, right?) to search the forum. work smarter at finding those topics you want to discuss. You don't have to wade thru anything.


.lm.
Last edited by leisuremuffin on Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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signal
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Post by signal » Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:41 pm

djadonis206 wrote:how about people just title their threads clearly?
Great idea. This would also help.

It would make it that much easier to move very clearly-titled threads such as

"OT: What's your political alignment?"
"OT: What's your favorite ice cream?"
"OT: What the f&*^ is up with George Bush?"
"OT: What do you think of my girlfriend's ass?"
"OT: Who watches the Sopranos?"

into their own section where everyone know's all the real fun is being had and leave the boring music nonsense to languish in the general forum.

Seriously, though, I think specificity in any thread title, like you're suggesting, is a good call.

djadonis206
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Post by djadonis206 » Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:43 pm

:oops:

those are all OT i've posted sans the poilitcal shit and the thing about my girlfriends butt
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signal
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Post by signal » Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:48 pm

Look, Muffin, I'm not disagreeing with you that most of the threads are on topic. What I've said three times now is that the extra shit works to displace on topic stuff FASTER. And it is a question of functionality. Any forum is easier to navigate when a user can go straight to a section that most suits their needs.

huffcw
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Post by huffcw » Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:50 pm

Relying on individuals to label posts correctly probably will not work. I vote for a seperate off topic section. I don't think it would stop anyone from coming here - it not that difficult to click on a seperate link to see what people are talking about that is off topic.

In my opinion, there should be a section dedicated to discussing Live, making music and other related music making software. Maybe the general section should remain for discusions about anything - including totally off topic stuff - and a new link should be added called "Making Music with Live"

leisuremuffin
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Post by leisuremuffin » Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:51 pm

well, i disagree. It's not pushing stuff down that much faster, because if it is an interesting topic to be discussed, it will stay at the top. And if it isn't, but pertains to a specific question you have, you can search for it and resurrect it.




.lm.
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