Anyone using Live as a DAW for regular recording

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
The Hulk
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Anyone using Live as a DAW for regular recording

Post by The Hulk » Mon Oct 06, 2003 1:07 pm

Hey guys,
I've been producing a pretty straightforward pop EP demo and i've been using Live for all the groundwork, with the intent on bringing all the audio into Logic once I've got all the tracks worked out. I'm starting to question whether one really needs Logic (or Protools) if you've got Live and Reason (which I do). All the bass and drums were composed in Reason and are rewired into Live. It's very bare bones and all I'm only doing one track of guitar and 2 vocal tracks. Now, do you think Live's compressor's and effects options can do the job without ever using Logic. Meaning using Live as the mastering program (as well as for everything else). Hell, this would make my life a lot easier. Just wondering if anyone else here has decided to take this shortcut when producing more conventional stuff. Maybe i need to invest in some vst effects to throw into Live which will help in the mastering? any suggestions?
(I'm on mac OS X btw)
The best, best songs are utterly forgettable.

duncjam

Post by duncjam » Wed Oct 08, 2003 7:19 pm

Glad to see I'm not the only person in the world who was thinking of using Live for this! I have Reason and Live too, plus Cubasis VST 4.0 (I am on Windows XP). I hardly ever use Cubasis and to be honest find it a bit cryptic when it comes to plugin fx so I decided to use Live to master my tracks. So far the most useful plugin for me has been the EQ Four, some of my ambient tracks are a bit muddy around 300Hz and need a bit of air and sparkle at the top end, and EQ Four sorts this out with the minimum of fuss.

Apparently TC Works Native Bundle is good for mastering, but at £299 (UK) I really don't feel like buying it. May as well get the full version of WaveLab which includes mastering fx for £250 if I want to spend that sort of money. I'm looking forward to Live 3 with its multiband compressor.

Akhros
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You really can

Post by Akhros » Wed Oct 08, 2003 7:47 pm

I know how it sounds annoying : it costs ok : but you can really finish it in Live.
Email me back I have a better solution for both of you.
Akhros
I use Live like a NEVE apart from that it is on a puter...
Best software in the world is Live added to Reason. Pro Tools has been...
I was sales marketing engineer of Avid middle east and sales of IK-multimedia in Dubai Emirates.

Mbazzy
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Post by Mbazzy » Wed Oct 08, 2003 8:15 pm

In my modest opinion live can do the trick with best result as follows:

1/ Record in arranger
2/ Consolidate [ Live3] every single track to single wav
3/ Mixdown these big wav's to one single wav

In Live I put Endorphin on the master-out .

I master in Soundforge using Izotope Ozone.
http://www.mbazzy.tk -
Mbazzy's "The dysfunctional playground, a scrapbook a bout the shape of useless things" now OUT on Retinascan - http://www.retinascan.de

The Hulk
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Post by The Hulk » Wed Oct 08, 2003 8:20 pm

Mbazzy wrote:In my modest opinion live can do the trick with best result as follows:

1/ Record in arranger
2/ Consolidate [ Live3] every single track to single wav
3/ Mixdown these big wav's to one single wav

In Live I put Endorphin on the master-out .

I master in Soundforge using Izotope Ozone.
Thanks MBazzy,
What's Endorphin? unfortuantely since being on OSX i don't get the pleasures of Sonic Foundry. What's a good standard for audio mastering in OSX? (i usually just export from Live, but i know there are probably better ways to treat the final AIF mixdowns).
The best, best songs are utterly forgettable.

scientist
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Post by scientist » Wed Oct 08, 2003 8:55 pm

i can vouch for live as well...protools rarely gets used anymore. i can record either through a digi001 or a us428. i'd say the most important thing for recording conventional instruments is to try and not warp or crossfade any of your recordings. as long as live isn't performing any time stretching algorithms you'll be able to keep your sound quality intact. as for mastering, i use psp vintage warmer for finalizing tracks for broadcast (though for cds and vinyl i go to a professional). i've done plenty of television spots this way and haven't had a problem yet.

Mbazzy
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Post by Mbazzy » Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:00 pm

Endorphin : Dual band stereo compressor by Digital Fishphones [ one of thebest out there and for free ] , but alternatively you can use "the Fish Fillets" [also for osX ] collection by the same developer : http://digitalfishphones.com/

Am really not very OSX knowledgable, sorry ...
http://www.mbazzy.tk -
Mbazzy's "The dysfunctional playground, a scrapbook a bout the shape of useless things" now OUT on Retinascan - http://www.retinascan.de

dpel
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LIVE AS A DAW

Post by dpel » Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:20 pm

people,
i am currently recording 2 projects with live and Protools.

I'm tracking a Country record in ProTools 96K/24 bit with the intention
of mixing / sweetening in live.

I'll also be tracking a rock project similarily.

LIVE CAN REPLACE PROTOOLS.

i've done tests with the latest beta. i've recorded 24 inputs and then copied them over to other tracks to form a 96 track session. i've added some plugins etc. so far so good.

dp
Dave Pelman Music
http://www.davepelman.com

Geraldo
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Post by Geraldo » Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:49 pm

I think Live is great as a DAW. I know it was originally concepted ( is that a word?) as a live performance instrument, but quickly people realized you could track, mix and compose with it. I have to do things differently than I would in Cubase or Logic but that is fine because I have grown to prefer Live's workflow over traditional DAWs. I also think that Live has helped me to think differently about making music which has been a good thing. I think you should try doing a song from start to finish in Live and then decide for yourself if it measures up.
I probably should not bring up the contentious VSTi issue but consider that Fruity Loops is now developing Rewire so soon you can add VSTi's into Live which for some people has been its primary limitation.
Maybe when you finish it you can post it to a website and let us hear what you accomplished.
Happy mixing.

The Hulk
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Post by The Hulk » Thu Oct 09, 2003 1:04 am

Thanks for all your comments, i definitely feel more confident about using Live as my mastering audio console! I've actually used it for comping and the ease of use has been keeping me from using Logic. Now i want my 600 bucks back from my logic purchase :/
The best, best songs are utterly forgettable.

RedAlert
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Post by RedAlert » Thu Oct 09, 2003 5:04 am

You can always mix through multiple outputs to a true analogue console and bust a serious move :!:

jessecee
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Thanks for helping me out too.

Post by jessecee » Thu Oct 09, 2003 11:12 am

I have been aganizing about which sequencer program to get, my primary music program is Acid 4.0, then yesterday I tried the rewire function using Live as a slave and wow the possibilities are endless. I see from what I have read here that a dedicated sequencer program may not be worth spending the xtra money on.

Akhros
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all u need

Post by Akhros » Thu Oct 09, 2003 10:36 pm

working on with live all u need is if you are capturing outside an omni studio M-audio. Minimize thousands of external different electronics plugged on source. U can even insert effects in omni.
Then you need Bias peak or any mastering tool on PC like wavelab etc...
You define the cuts you can cut full voice in pieces then name samples differently and drop them into live tracks - from there your tallent does the rest could it be real bass or guitar playin and arrangements and hears - just throw your Pro Tools now... or sell it better :roll: and get a 20 inches screen
Akhros.
I use Live like a NEVE apart from that it is on a puter...
Best software in the world is Live added to Reason. Pro Tools has been...
I was sales marketing engineer of Avid middle east and sales of IK-multimedia in Dubai Emirates.

jamief
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Post by jamief » Fri Oct 10, 2003 8:31 am

I have sequenced audio in live only for the past 10 mths or so. Im still using cubase as a vsti host and midid sequencer audio recording front end.
I do intend on purchasing logic aswell though. Live is not as yet a dedicated 5.1 mixer. My advice dont be too hasty to ditch your other sequencers mix keep them on line.

previous post from the past:

I use cubase vst 32 as my front end with Live 2 rewire slaved to it. I can play all my Vsti,s and then either record them live in Vst or do an audio export of a midi/vstis sequence. I specify the audio folder of Cubase to be the same as the Live selfcontained song folder and this way the audio shows up easily for me to arrange within live. Cubase for midi and external sound to picture sync and mastering, vsti,s etc etc. Live for 95% of audio arrangments and creative audio manipulation and sequencing.

epilacs
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Post by epilacs » Sat Oct 11, 2003 6:07 pm

i would have to disagree re: using live as a daw.
i think that live is an incredible tool for both live performance
and studio sequencing/arranging, etc...
however, i do not think that the rendering engine is at a stage
where audio mixed down and "mastered" completely in live
can stand up in terms of sound quality.


i love live so much and totally depend on it during both the creation and performance process.
and although i am all for reappropriating software for unintended uses,
i just dont think that live is anything more than adequate in terms of
the render process, esp when dealing with multiple tracks and effects.

my current method involves:

-most arranging etc in live

-rough 'mixes", meaning what i have put together in live including
effects, volume envelopes, etc. ths is the point at which i
make decisions re: the arrangement, general feel, sound, etc
this is the only pont at which i will render or mixdown an entire track
in ableton, just as a rough mix...
although i can see recording it to a separate track, or recording it in real timeusing a deparate soft.

-because i do not have a rewire-capable daw/multitrack soft, i do render,
track by track, the arrangement

-mixdown in either sonic foundry vegas or nuendo.

-treatment of the mix i soundforge. for home mastering i an a huge fan
of izotope ozone (http://izotope.com)


..just another opinion

wm
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