sampling classical music

Johnisfaster · Post by **Johnisfaster** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:54 am

should I be weary of sampling classical music? I'm kinda thinking it depends on how old the recording is as to whether or not the copyrights are still valid.

I've never been that happy with any sample libraries and thought I might try to make my own using classical music samples.

Needs2Know · Post by **Needs2Know** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 3:54 am

I also want to do that. So far I cant find anything solid. Now that I'm on News groups maybe I can find some. I really like the old Carmina Burana sound and think it would sound cool in techno drivin music. I was recently trying to take out some of the noise from a CB track but it made it have a weird mettalic crappy sound. This was using Sound Soap 2. Another idea might be to take one of those portable recorders and go listen to a concert and record it. then dump it into SoundSoap and see if you can enhance it to a quality level.

Or you could have someone that can sing opera come into your studio and lay down some vocals.

Or maybe there is a dvd out there that you can purchase.

Or maybe you can get the gay mans choir to come over and record a full session.

hmmm... the wheels are turning

Johnisfaster · Post by **Johnisfaster** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 4:07 am

I have a friend that plays chello really well but I always have trouble trying to work on music with people. I could have her record a bunch of random crap and then go chop it up though

Huey · Post by **Huey** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:06 pm

The copyright is still valid. Just because it is "Classical" does not mean the recording was not make in 2006 or so. The law in the US is that the copyright is no longer valid I believe 70 or 75 years after the recording was made. I have some old 78 boogie woogie albums (Harry James, Tommy Dorsey etc.) that my dad gave me. On the albums there is a stamp that says 1936. That would make this original recording 70 years old and open for sampling. I may be incorrect on whether its 70 or 75 years from the origninal recording or after the author of the music has died. My point on the Classical is, if the St. Louis Symphony performed a Mozart tune and released it on CD in 2006, 2006 is when the 70-75 year clock starts. Eventhough Mozart died along time ago. The performance of the piece was done in 2006 and the copyright is owned by the St. Louis Symphony.

Don

jeskola · Post by **jeskola** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:34 pm

Theres a shop in edinburgh right round from my house that would be your dream - they seem to specialise in eveything and anything pre 50's - but i mean right back to 1900 - the shop is probs around 15ft by 30ft and wall to wall and piles of dusty old recordings. Stupidly ive never spent anymore than 10 mins in the place - i really should start digging - its a great wee place.

have a read of this article

http://www.utata.org/articles//utatabites/13314.php

peeddrroo · Post by **peeddrroo** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:39 pm

something is freely samplable 70+ years after the death of the composer, and 50+ years after the recording was made.
so if you sample a record of mozart made before 1956, you don't have to worry.

for composers still alive or dead<70 years ago, you have to ask autorisation to the publishers.

for recordings made<50 years ago, you'll have to pay royalties.

but then, all this can be negociated. for instance, if you saple something from ravel, you can forget it right now: the heirs never accept any sample use.

Rogue Scrunt · Post by **Rogue Scrunt** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 4:12 pm

if you were to go to the library, and transpose the music your self, then you could hire an orchestra to play it ni problem.

Since the music is recorded, you would have to obtain a mechanical liscens.

Also the symphony paid a publisher for the score. Modern publishing houses own all of the old scores.

good luck. Just sample and have some fun.

Are you releaseing material to the public?

Need2know, your carmina burana idea is good, but it has been done many times in the last decade.

Johnisfaster · Post by **Johnisfaster** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:03 pm

Rogue Scrunt wrote:Are you releaseing material to the public?

one day yes, but even though I'm not releasing anything anytime soon I'd still rather not write any tunes using samples I couldn't actually use in the event that I did release. it would cause a mess of trying to replace all those samples and trying to remember which ones are illegal and which ones aren't and which ones came from where. it's a headache so I'd rather just stick with samples I know I can use no matter what.

DeadlyKungFu · Post by **DeadlyKungFu** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:15 pm

peeddrroo wrote:something is freely samplable 70+ years after the death of the composer, and 50+ years after the recording was made.
so if you sample a record of mozart made before 1956, you don't have to worry.

for composers still alive or dead<70 years ago, you have to ask autorisation to the publishers.

for recordings made<50 years ago, you'll have to pay royalties.

but then, all this can be negociated. for instance, if you saple something from ravel, you can forget it right now: the heirs never accept any sample use.

that's a really cool observation, we're literally at the peak of where sampling can start to get insanely popular. 'most' recordings prior to 1956 don't sound all that great.

Johnisfaster · Post by **Johnisfaster** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:19 pm

about the copyrights expiring after 50 years, there seems to be a flaw in that cause 50 years after the recording will always come before 70 years after their death comes. so I'm curious to see more details as I'm sure it's quite a rabbits hole.

also, can't copyrights be renewed?

peeddrroo · Post by **peeddrroo** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:34 pm

when you look at copyrights/licensing/clearing, there are really two things:
-the material part of it, which is the mechanical license, and that corresponds to the fact that a record was released (not that a piece was composed). it holds for 50 years after the recording was made.
for instance, you can sample almost any charlie parker recordings (he died in '55), you won't have to bother about mechanical rights, provided you sampled the acutal record from 1940+, and not a reissue (if you get sued, you'll have to show the record from 40+, which must be damn expensive).
anyway, there are a lot of original classical recordings from this period available for cheap. and i doubt people would ask you to show this, unless you seel 3 billion records.

- the other part is the intelectual property. it stays for 70 years after the death of the composer (war periods must be taken off). for this one you have to deal with the publisher of the piece (who owns the score). after 70 years after the death of the composer, it falls into public domain and is free to use.

Johnisfaster · Post by **Johnisfaster** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:40 pm

interesting that war periods don't count? weird.

thank you though thats a bit more detailed

Kodama · Post by **Kodama** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 9:26 pm

Check out maganatune.com 's policies on sampling, I think you can sample everything for yourself or you can get a quote online for licensing for commercial.

djsynchro · Post by **djsynchro** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 3:04 am

Johnisfaster wrote:interesting that war periods don't count? weird.

thank you though thats a bit more detailed

That's because all is fair in love and war.
So if you really love it, you can sample it.

And if you only sell a couple of 1000 copies no-one is ever going to hassle you about it. That's not the law, but that's just how it is. Especially movies get sampled to death.

melocoton · Post by **melocoton** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 3:30 am

DeadlyKungFu wrote:that's a really cool observation, we're literally at the peak of where sampling can start to get insanely popular. 'most' recordings prior to 1956 don't sound all that great.

Yeah but as they keep to expanding copyright laws we'll probably see that date getting pushed farther back rather than forward!

Then again if this thing about not counting war years is true (sounds crazy) we essentially now have indefinite copyrights to go along with our neverending state of war. Hooray!

about the copyrights expiring after 50 years, there seems to be a flaw in that cause 50 years after the recording will always come before 70 years after their death comes.

Well, not really. Just take a look at classical music. The composer can be dead for more than 70 years so the composition is public domain but if I make a new recording of it I hold the mechanical copyright to my recorded interpretation for 50 years or whatever. I'm not sure if it works in the reverse. If a recording is 50 years old but the composer is still alive is the mechanical recording public domain but you still have to pay publishing royalties to use it? Remember that publishing and mechanicals are two different things. Very confusing.