When is a Song just too Long...

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
D DAS
Posts: 890
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 7:37 am

When is a Song just too Long...

Post by D DAS » Thu Jan 25, 2007 7:11 am

I have this issue, whenever i record a song pre arrangment i have about twleve minutes of audio recorded, ok cool so i get into the arrangment and manage to cut 2 -3 minutes 4 at best from that original length leaving me with an 8-10 minute song. mentally i am wanting it down to 6-7 minutes but have troubles taking bits out of it because i feel it is all needed in the song. i know there is no rules to song length but,,,

is it easy for you to chop important audio from your tracks?

or i just need to not care and make some 9-10 minute songs. as long as it's good it's good right?

d~

Joshua Boden
Posts: 110
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2004 2:14 am
Location: NOVA/DC
Contact:

Post by Joshua Boden » Thu Jan 25, 2007 7:18 am

I dont think there is an answer to your question....when is a piece of art finished....I dig what Jackson Pollock said when some reporter asked him how he knew when a painting was finished..." How do you know when your done making love?" There are no rules...and if some one tells you that there are...fuck 'em!

moscom_musik
Posts: 152
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 9:57 pm

Post by moscom_musik » Thu Jan 25, 2007 8:22 am

Just a tip : it might be a good idea to record the pre arrangement and leave it for a day or two. When yo'll open it back, you will have a different point of view and may hear what has to be cut out... :)

Benshik
Posts: 763
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2004 8:45 am
Location: Moscow/Montreal

Post by Benshik » Thu Jan 25, 2007 8:41 am

make a "radical" edit, like, make your song 2 minutes long.
then compare and find a balance between this and your initial version...
Macbook 2.2ghz, OS 10.5.2, Focusrite Saffire, Microkontrol, Lemur

dancing Ray
Posts: 542
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:13 am
Location: Dresden
Contact:

Post by dancing Ray » Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:36 am

i feel it is all needed in the song.
Do not feel, do know what is needed for your song. Divide it up in functional parts. This is quite theoretical, though.
Another way is to let someone else feel what is needed but it should be someone you trust or whose taste you trust. The other person will have a look less emotional on your work.

I sometimes "change Tracks" with a friend of mine, he works on my arrangement for a while and I on his. I once cut up his song (deleted those parts of it that seemed redundant to me) radically and he said: "Oh, you really threw that bridge away, why does it always need someone else to clean up songs?"
Spiralgroove wrote:a little quantization never hurt nobody

Tommy Bruise
Posts: 64
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 6:42 pm
Location: barrow-in-furness cumbria nw england
Contact:

Post by Tommy Bruise » Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:41 am

if you look at the way you can dj with live, remixing on the fly, song length has no impact

Herne
Posts: 139
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 11:45 am

Post by Herne » Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:45 am

Joshua Boden wrote:..." How do you know when your done making love?"...
... cos the pizza's all gone?
Live 6.10 | Vista Ultimate | Reason 3 |
Athlon 64 X2 6400 | 4GB DDR2 8000 |
Axiom 61 | BCR2000 | PadKONTROL |

nebulae
Posts: 15715
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:16 am
Location: New Orleans
Contact:

Post by nebulae » Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:09 pm

Joshua Boden wrote:" How do you know when your done making love?" There are no rules...and if some one tells you that there are...fuck 'em!
But how do you know when you're done fuckin' 'em?

nebulae
Posts: 15715
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:16 am
Location: New Orleans
Contact:

Post by nebulae » Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:14 pm

In all seriousness, when you're producing music, it's very similar to when you're directing a movie. Most directors will tell you that after they've made the movie they want, they still go back and often cut out their favorite parts. The message here is that after you're done creating, you kind of put aside what you love (your self-indulgent side), and you hear it from a listener's perspective (audience perspective). By doing so, you get an impression of parts that might lag or be boring or need editing, etc. Eventually, there's a compromise between your audience's perspective, and the self-indulgent brilliance of your song. And that's when it's done.

Now if you're in the fuck 'em camp, then don't bother with the audience perspective, ever. Conversely, if you're doing pop, use only the audience perspective, but be prepared to never do anything really creative. I look for a balance, somewhere around 66% self indulgence, 33% audience perspective, 1% bizzarro.

glu
Posts: 2769
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 12:27 am

Post by glu » Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:20 pm

My songs used to be too long. Now they are too short when I write them- 3 minutes or so... this is usually the main parts/themes, and I usually build more into the song, sometimes a conclusive ending, and a nice bridge, and that usually leaves me with 4 minutes...

always leave them wanting more, especially if the track is catchy...
no prevailing genre of music:
http://alonetone.com/glu

nebulae
Posts: 15715
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:16 am
Location: New Orleans
Contact:

Post by nebulae » Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:23 pm

You're making 3-chord punk songs these days?

glu
Posts: 2769
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 12:27 am

Post by glu » Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:28 pm

nebulae wrote:You're making 3-chord punk songs these days?
moi? Haha. No no punk here. Not really my style. I am into more trip hop, ambient, and "progressive rock" stuff. Damn, I need to get some new web space. I would love to demonstrate the progression of writing a song.

Usually I will work on two main grooves if I am writing music that has any kind of conventional style. It ends up being a verse and chorus. Then I elaborate more, which usually becomes verse and chorus 2, or just a progressive build from the original groove, where instruments layer on one another to a climactic release... oh ya...

and that's just one way it goes. Sometimes I will write a groove, and it ends up being the end...

main point- leave them wanting more, especially if you really dig your tune. It makes you want to play it over and over again. One of the oldest tricks in the book.
no prevailing genre of music:
http://alonetone.com/glu

sweetjesus
Posts: 8803
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 3:12 pm
Location: www.fridge.net.au
Contact:

Post by sweetjesus » Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:33 pm

when you add a piece of music in because you think its expected as opposed to it being needed

glu
Posts: 2769
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 12:27 am

Post by glu » Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:41 pm

sweetjesus wrote:when you add a piece of music in because you think its expected as opposed to it being needed
sometimes the song needs a little breathing room, so adding a few measures between the end of a chorus to the start of a new verse can make for a nice break down..


shit i need to catch the bus... trying to use less gas

peace!

g
no prevailing genre of music:
http://alonetone.com/glu

Shoma
Posts: 709
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 6:20 pm
Location: Almaty, Kazakhstan

Post by Shoma » Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:50 pm

Herne wrote:
Joshua Boden wrote:..." How do you know when your done making love?"...
... cos the pizza's all gone?
haha, brilliant :lol:

Post Reply