Richard Dawkins: The God Delusion.

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
BoimB son of BoB
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Post by BoimB son of BoB » Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:50 pm

victorjohn wrote:I find it fascinating that all, and I mean all evolutionist argument, atheist belief, philosophical self-actualization, and even the field of bio-engineering requires just as much presupposition as a religion does. I always wonder about that. Scientists and philosophers alike form a meta-narrative of their own and present it as support for a personal morality, a personal philosphy, of no communal impact or consequence really apart from their own physical reach.

As I see this present age dawn on the human race, I marvel at our inablity to solve our own problems, and our insistence that each of us has an answer or some profound observation that needs hearing.

Oh I hear much high rhetoric on the "problems" caused by religion itself, but I see the forces of contemporary thought applying their strength to the creation of greater military weaponry, commercial drugs with a massive risk/failure rate, and the home-delivery of greater forms of deviance (real violence video games, porn, mindless programming).

We call this evolution? Even if the order of universal principles converged in a random moment of greatness to birth existence as we know it, we humans are certainly not ordering them on to greater result. Forgive the ancients for leaping past our post-modern dilema with a story of the "fall of man." Apparently they were trying to spare us an embarrassing moment getting caught mentally masturbating in public.

You know what I see in evolutionists and atheists? The dying bitter words of the modern era. It is comical to see this desperate clinging to the comic book drawings of Darwin. There is no more proof of this position than that of the "religious zealots." I for one will cease acknowledging Enlightenment-era foolishness.

Before I go down in a blaze of flames, I ask: Don't point me to any "empirical" evidence for a godless and progressive existence. First look up the meaning of "empirical" at webster.com and ask, what human being has climbed out of themselves to make such an observation.

These threads are freaking absurd with their post-modern knots, as if somehow together we can berate one another into some kind of existential solution.

And as for Dawkins, there are colleagues of his the believe the exact opposite, in whom shall I place my faith?

Yeah, I did it... I brought choice into the matter? Did I upset the Karmic balance? Did I insult my neurotransmitters? Are my elemental particles spinning in a new fashion?

Wait, tell me what I believe on an internet forum, because that is why I bought Ableton Live... I had a void in my heart and wanted your rational religion to fill it.
this lyric english goes way above my head for the most part. don't even quite understand what he's brabbling about...

definately the artistic type.

or is it politics again??

sorry at forehand

shtreimel
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Post by shtreimel » Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:50 pm

victorjohn...you sir are a breath of fresh air in a room full of farts. Very nice post.
victorjohn wrote:Did I insult my neurotransmitters?
Oddly enough, my day job is working for an early-psychosis team. We're supposed to be the latest and greatest with respect to biological approaches to psychosis. Y'Know what...we don't know shit. The meds we use, if they work, create just as many problems as they solve. And bio-psychoharm's understanding of depression/anxiety etc., have never, ever been proved. Great science. It would seem, as victorjohn indicates, that our sick socities produce sick "souls". And while we slam back effexor and lithium to soothe our angst, it just won't go away. Hmmmm, perhaps this has very little to do with brain chemistry, but living chemistry.

Again victorjohn, lovely post.
Last edited by shtreimel on Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

mdk
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Post by mdk » Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:52 pm

2 for the price of one. sorted.

maybe ableton should advertise it on the main site.

Ableton Live 6.

Elastic Audio. Hands On Control. Variable Belief System Attack.

victorjohn
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Post by victorjohn » Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:53 pm

BoimB son of BoB wrote:
this lyric english goes way above my head for the most part. don't even quite understand what he's brabbling about...

sorry at forehand
You seem to understand Oxford English just fine when it suits you. I'll post a note to Dawkins to be more prosaic in his diatribe in order that the dialog remain even.
http://www.tekfunk.com/

"No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life."-Albert Einstein

victorjohn
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Post by victorjohn » Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:54 pm

mdk wrote:
Elastic Audio. Hands On Control. Variable Belief System Attack.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

BAHAHAHAHA!
http://www.tekfunk.com/

"No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life."-Albert Einstein

BoimB son of BoB
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Post by BoimB son of BoB » Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:01 pm

victorjohn wrote:
BoimB son of BoB wrote:
this lyric english goes way above my head for the most part. don't even quite understand what he's brabbling about...

sorry at forehand
You seem to understand Oxford English just fine when it suits you. I'll post a note to Dawkins to be more prosaic in his diatribe in order that the dialog remain even.
oddly enough i don't see an argumant anywere in you text. science as you decribe is not science. i'm sorry but it isn't.

tahn there is some politics ethics that are just some frustrations you have and say nothing at all.

i ask you what evolution is, becouse it seems you give it some very creative interpretation as to what it is not.

and there is this Choice thing you bring up. i don't really get the point there. but hey, you seem to understand.

you sure now how to word it convincingly, yet i feel your words are a bit vague and empty actually? and some are plain wrong.

victorjohn
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Post by victorjohn » Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:04 pm

shtreimel wrote:victorjohn.... Y'Know what...we don't know shit. The meds we use, if they work, create just as many problems as they solve. And bio-psychoharm's understanding of depression/anxiety etc., have never, ever been proved. Great science. It would seem, as victorjohn indicates, that our sick socities produce sick "souls". And while we slam back effexor and lithium to soothe our angst, it just won't go away. Hmmmm, perhaps this has very little to do with brain chemistry, but living chemistry.

Again victorjohn, lovely post.
Thanks mate. After several attempts to isolate various goodies ala PIHKAL and TIHKAL with some more technical buddies in the mid 90's, I actually went schizophrenic for a time (check Atlanta city medical records). It was in that experience, and the experience of a desperately needed miraculous healing (check medical records with one Dr. Jan Myers at the Asha school of Oriental Medicine) that I gave up my quest to save the world myself via chemicals... ecstasy raver love had motivated an impossible task, and one wannabe Psychopharmacologist was not going to help anyone whilst "getting high on his own supply."

Now I keep it simple. I thank God every day that my food does not have mind-imprisoning chemicals added to it by the government, that you can't read my thoughts, and that I don't have to occasionally run for my life for no apparent reason abandoning car or subway at a full sprint because of the encoded messages coming out of the speakers.

Oh, and I use Ableton to make beats most of the time... occasionally I fool myself into coming here to under the pretense of getting better at that.
http://www.tekfunk.com/

"No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life."-Albert Einstein

victorjohn
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Post by victorjohn » Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:08 pm

BoimB son of BoB wrote: oddly enough i don't see an argumant anywere in you text. science as you decribe is not science. i'm sorry but it isn't.

tahn there is some politics ethics that are just some frustrations you have and say nothing at all.

i ask you what evolution is, becouse it seems you give it some very creative interpretation as to what it is not.

and there is this Choice thing you bring up. i don't really get the point there. but hey, you seem to understand.

you sure now how to word it convincingly, yet i feel your words are a bit vague and empty actually? and some are plain wrong.
Oh so you did understand me. OK, OK, so which was the lie? That you understand or that you don't? Shall I choose for myself and continue the thread accordingly, or would you like to specify? Which makes you more comfortable:

1) I think you are wrong, but honestly so, and just as attached to your religion as I am mine.

or

2) I think you are wrong, and have such a desire to appear more intelligent than your contemporaries that you would feign idiocy in the midst of an philosophical paradox to distract and gain the upper hand?
http://www.tekfunk.com/

"No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life."-Albert Einstein

BoimB son of BoB
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Post by BoimB son of BoB » Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:10 pm

shtreimel wrote:victorjohn...you sir are a breath of fresh air in a room full of farts. Very nice post.
victorjohn wrote:Did I insult my neurotransmitters?
Oddly enough, my day job is working for an early-psychosis team. We're supposed to be the latest and greatest with respect to biological approaches to psychosis. Y'Know what...we don't know shit. The meds we use, if they work, create just as many problems as they solve. And bio-psychoharm's understanding of depression/anxiety etc., have never, ever been proved. Great science. It would seem, as victorjohn indicates, that our sick socities produce sick "souls". And while we slam back effexor and lithium to soothe our angst, it just won't go away. Hmmmm, perhaps this has very little to do with brain chemistry, but living chemistry.

Again victorjohn, lovely post.
living chemistry :lol:

sorry.

BoimB son of BoB
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Post by BoimB son of BoB » Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:17 pm

victorjohn wrote:
BoimB son of BoB wrote: oddly enough i don't see an argumant anywere in you text. science as you decribe is not science. i'm sorry but it isn't.

tahn there is some politics ethics that are just some frustrations you have and say nothing at all.

i ask you what evolution is, becouse it seems you give it some very creative interpretation as to what it is not.

and there is this Choice thing you bring up. i don't really get the point there. but hey, you seem to understand.

you sure now how to word it convincingly, yet i feel your words are a bit vague and empty actually? and some are plain wrong.
Oh so you did understand me. OK, OK, so which was the lie? That you understand or that you don't? Shall I choose for myself and continue the thread accordingly, or would you like to specify? Which makes you more comfortable:

1) I think you are wrong, but honestly so, and just as attached to your religion as I am mine.

or

2) I think you are wrong, and have such a desire to appear more intelligent than your contemporaries that you would feign idiocy in the midst of an philosophical paradox to distract and gain the upper hand?
no i had to read that post four times to actually vagely begin to understand what was actually in it.

i know that doesn't actualy flatter my knowledge of english, but i'll live.

mdk
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Post by mdk » Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:17 pm

victorjohn wrote:1) I think you are wrong, but honestly so, and just as attached to your religion as I am mine.
Science isnt a religion, science is a method.

also science is not technology, technology is the product of applying scientific methods to fulfil the desires of man. be they political, religious, compassionate etc..

victorjohn
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Post by victorjohn » Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:43 pm

Well I better get this overwith, I am posting:

Image

Sorry, but I had to get it in before anyone else did.
http://www.tekfunk.com/

"No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life."-Albert Einstein

BoimB son of BoB
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Post by BoimB son of BoB » Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:49 pm

victorjohn wrote:Well I better get this overwith, I am posting:

Image

Sorry, but I had to get it in before anyone else did.
maybe we should just close this thread.

there is a lot of info already in it. most of it has been said?

i don't want to loose face, :lol: but my pen is empty right now.

ah well tomorow is another day, who knows.

shlomo
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Post by shlomo » Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:19 pm

BoimB son of BoB wrote:ah well tomorow is another day, who knows.
God and Dawkins do!

ethios4
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Post by ethios4 » Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:26 pm

mdk wrote:Science isnt a religion, science is a method.
Its true. I believe thats why people like Dawkins come up with nothing when they probe the mysteries with the instrument of science - the essence of religious experience has to do with the paradox of this dualistic universe, and the nature of science is to collapse the paradox along rational lines. Nothing wrong with that, but it has to be recognized for what it is.

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