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need midi plugin - for altered tuning (microtonal)

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:52 pm
by spherop
in cubase there's a midi plugin that allows you to setup non western tuning scales. don't see anything like that built into live...does this exist? is there a way to use 3rd party midi plugins in live that might do this?

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:48 pm
by slatepipe
hi

this thing has got loads of ethic instruments with loads and loads of alternate non western tunings :

http://www.dashsignature.com/products/knagalis.htm

Re: need midi plugin - for altered tuning (microtonal)

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:16 pm
by sleepwalkermusic
I don't see how that's possible. Midi doesn't have a concept of tuning. It's a digital triggering system. If you want a different tuning system, it's got to be done with the samples triggered/synthesized, not the triggering mechanism.
spherop wrote:in cubase there's a midi plugin that allows you to setup non western tuning scales. don't see anything like that built into live...does this exist? is there a way to use 3rd party midi plugins in live that might do this?

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:09 pm
by spherop
slatepipe wrote:hi

this thing has got loads of ethic instruments with loads and loads of alternate non western tunings :

http://www.dashsignature.com/products/knagalis.htm
thanks i'll check it out.

Re: need midi plugin - for altered tuning (microtonal)

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:10 pm
by spherop
sleepwalkermusic wrote:I don't see how that's possible. Midi doesn't have a concept of tuning. It's a digital triggering system. If you want a different tuning system, it's got to be done with the samples triggered/synthesized, not the triggering mechanism.
spherop wrote:in cubase there's a midi plugin that allows you to setup non western tuning scales. don't see anything like that built into live...does this exist? is there a way to use 3rd party midi plugins in live that might do this?
hmm ...well i have used the midi plugin in cubase which enables you to setup tunings and when playing a piano vsti - the tunings would map accordingly. i guess i'll look back in cubase again ..haven't dusted it off in a while...but this thing seemed to do exactly what i need now - the ability to setup microtungin scales for vstis.

Re: need midi plugin - for altered tuning (microtonal)

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:12 pm
by Tone Deft
spherop wrote:
sleepwalkermusic wrote:I don't see how that's possible. Midi doesn't have a concept of tuning. It's a digital triggering system. If you want a different tuning system, it's got to be done with the samples triggered/synthesized, not the triggering mechanism.
spherop wrote:in cubase there's a midi plugin that allows you to setup non western tuning scales. don't see anything like that built into live...does this exist? is there a way to use 3rd party midi plugins in live that might do this?
hmm ...well i have used the midi plugin in cubase which enables you to setup tunings and when playing a piano vsti - the tunings would map accordingly. i guess i'll look back in cubase again ..haven't dusted it off in a while...but this thing seemed to do exactly what i need now - the ability to setup microtungin scales for vstis.
It would be up to the VST, there's midi notes 0, 1, 2... not 0.1, 1.1, 2.1. Perhaps with a pitch bend CC sent along with every note you could get microtunings.

Re: need midi plugin - for altered tuning (microtonal)

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:16 pm
by b0unce
sleepwalkermusic wrote:I don't see how that's possible. Midi doesn't have a concept of tuning. It's a digital triggering system. If you want a different tuning system, it's got to be done with the samples triggered/synthesized, not the triggering mechanism.
spherop wrote:in cubase there's a midi plugin that allows you to setup non western tuning scales. don't see anything like that built into live...does this exist? is there a way to use 3rd party midi plugins in live that might do this?
actually, what you can do is send a pitch-bend signal along with (or perhaps just before) a note-on signal. Thats one way I know of to achieve alternate tuning, modular processing programs like maxmsp, plogue bidule etc make it possible to convert midi signals, and spit out the appropriate pitch-bend amount and note...

you'd have to do the research yourself, what amount of pitch-bend equates to whatever note you're looking for ...although its quite possible someone has done this already, so you might find quick results if you do a bit of searching on those programs mailing lists & forums...

just a thought

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:36 pm
by sebovzeoueb
I think a good thing is to set the pitch bend to 1 semitone, then apply 50% pitch bend for microtonal, I haven't tried this, but it sounds like the easiest way.

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:23 pm
by spherop
thanks for all the ideas/comments...

one question: is there an open midi plugin format? does live support 3rd party midi plugs a la vst plugs?

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 9:03 pm
by axou
Since Pitch Bend is a global message that affects all notes playing at a given instant, you're out of luck for any kind of polyphony.