How do you do that thing with sends again?

Sales Dude McBoob · Post by **Sales Dude McBoob** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:42 pm

I had a go at this, and I think I did something wrong.

Put a Utility set to phase invert on the "A Return" track.
Put an effect (100% wet) on "B Return" (try a ping pong delay to get a feel for it)
On the A Return track turn up Send B to maximum and set the gain to 0db
Make sure that both sends are set to post

I have an audio clip playing track 1, when I turn up Send A on track 1 the volume goes down until the top where it is silence.

Where did I goof?

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:54 pm

Sales Dude McBoob wrote:I had a go at this, and I think I did something wrong.

Put a Utility set to phase invert on the "A Return" track.
Put an effect (100% wet) on "B Return" (try a ping pong delay to get a feel for it)
On the A Return track turn up Send B to maximum and set the gain to 0db
Make sure that both sends are set to post
I have an audio clip playing track 1, when I turn up Send A on track 1 the volume goes down until the top where it is silence.

Where did I goof?

You didn't, that's the beauty of it.

You have the regular signal playing from the track.
The Send is the inverted signal.
As you increase the send level (the inverted signal), you get more inverted signal until the track and send are the same volume and they cancel out.

Track = Signal
Send = -Signal

Signal + (-Signal) = 0

It's weird to raise a fader and lower the volume.

Sales Dude McBoob · Post by **Sales Dude McBoob** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:09 pm

Aiiight. So... when I raise the Send B knob on track 1 and hear all effect and no signal, this is the desired result?

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:10 pm

Yeah, except take the effect out of send B and rack it in Send A with the Utility.

Sales Dude McBoob · Post by **Sales Dude McBoob** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:16 pm

Tone Deft wrote:Yeah, except take the effect out of send B and rack it in Send A with the Utility.

Ahhh...

dj superflat · Post by **dj superflat** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:27 pm

this has restored my faith in the forum (been a while since i saw a worthwhile trick rather than OT or beginner questions (no problem with beginner questions, just not much use to me)).

ARDJ · Post by **ARDJ** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:30 pm

the scrn shots are dead, how does this work?

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:52 pm

It's simple to setup, odd to play with.

Track 1 - audio - drop in any loop
Send A - Utility - Turn on the Left and Right inversion buttons

Turn Send A all the way up, fader on track 1 all the way down. Play the loop and turn up the fader on track 1.

As you turn up the fader on track 1, Send A cancels it out. Turning up the fader on track 1 lowers the volume (ODD!!!)

This is why-
Track 1 = Signal
Send A = -Signal (inverted signal)

Track1 + SendA = output
Signal + -Signal = 0

Now right click on the utility in Send A and hit Group to make it a rack.
Drop a drastic effect in there so it's easy to hear.

Now -
SendA = -Signal + effect
Track1 + SendA = output
Signal + -Signal + Effect = output
Effect = output

Then I suggested putting the rack in Send A into another Rack with an inverted Utility, with the right combo of Chain Selectors you can get dry-50/50-wet on a knob. I haven't tried that too much, it was late last night.

Verbal · Post by **Verbal** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:35 pm

What is the goal of this? Just to raise a fader to decrease volume?

I'm confused.

womoma · Post by **womoma** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:29 pm

One thing it can be used for is to use a shared effect on a return channel with a x-fader style mixing, rather than adding to the signal.

Clearscreen · Post by **Clearscreen** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:41 pm

What is the goal of this? Just to raise a fader to decrease volume?

I'm confused.

it lets you use a send as a 100% wet/dry effect control instead of a 50/50% wet/dry send. you could set all your effects to 100% wet instead, but this can let you have a little more flexibility with your setup. if i can figure out some online file storage i'll post up an example to give you the idea.

ARDJ · Post by **ARDJ** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:45 pm

this is so cool, thanks for the help clear & tone

nobbystylus · Post by **nobbystylus** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:08 am

I can put it up on my iDisk for you if you want... do you fancy sending over the .als to me and i'll host it for ya..

Clearscreen wrote:
What is the goal of this? Just to raise a fader to decrease volume?

I'm confused.
it lets you use a send as a 100% wet/dry effect control instead of a 50/50% wet/dry send. you could set all your effects to 100% wet instead, but this can let you have a little more flexibility with your setup. if i can figure out some online file storage i'll post up an example to give you the idea.

tylenol · Post by **tylenol** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:50 am

Tone Deft wrote: Then I suggested putting the rack in Send A into another Rack with an inverted Utility, with the right combo of Chain Selectors you can get dry-50/50-wet on a knob. I haven't tried that too much, it was late last night.

If you use the chain crossfade feature, you don't have to do the inversion thing. I have a template wet/dry rack that has two chains cross-faded, and a knob bound to the chain selector.

Clearscreen · Post by **Clearscreen** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:22 am

If you use the chain crossfade feature, you don't have to do the inversion thing. I have a template wet/dry rack that has two chains cross-faded, and a knob bound to the chain selector.

...but then you're not controlling the wet/dry level with the send on each channel, only on the effects chain. the advantage with this is you can have every channel set with a different wet/dry mix instead of every send having the same wet/dry mix.

I can put it up on my iDisk for you if you want... do you fancy sending over the .als to me and i'll host it for ya..

thanks for the offer, i'll send over the .als and the example rack.