NEW AKAI Controller MPK49

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Machinesworking
Posts: 11077
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Seattle

Post by Machinesworking » Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:37 am

arkoenig wrote:
Machinesworking wrote:Thanks, something to check for tomorrow. Hate how Guitar Center is the only game in town now..... fucking rampant capitalism with corporate tax breaks! :evil:
Aw c'mon. Companies such as Guitar Center are successful because people buy from them. Without customers, they'd fold.
That's simply not how it works. The owner of Wal Mart in some sort of self aggrandizing and apologetic way gave a final interview about a year before he died about corporate policy with chain stores etc.
Basically, at some point Wal Mart grew to 5 + stores, and profits/taxes were so high that the initial investors and stock owners started getting worried, the value of their stock was dropping.
The only way around this is to show some sort of loss, and the only loss that raises your stock price is expansion cost. So Wal Mart was forced to go into small towns and literally wipe out the mom and pop outfits by selling products at cost.
It's not simply that Guitar Center get customers, it's that they drive other smaller businesses under by the sheer volume of their size and ability to undersell.

I eventually bought the AKAI from Guitar Center, not because I wanted to, but because other businesses locally are almost non existent. I'm probably returning it, the driver is incompatible with Kore, and Kore hasn't been a problem with ant other software I own. I give them credit for a good return policy, but the idiots had an iMac so screwed that I couldn't mess with the Novation Remote SL at all, Waves and PACE were installed on a machine with no internet, and PACE was bugging to be repaired, and messing with the MIDI big time. EVERY time I go into GC their computers are that fucked up, and always there's some excuse about how it's someone else's fault etc.
The guys there simply don't care.

Fortunately I know a guy who just lost his store front,( still selling to studios etc. ) who has a new Novation 61 SL for sale....

Anyway fuck Guitar Center, and no, it's not because they are so great people buy from them, they operate at a loss until they dominate a market, just like any other viral corporation, blah! :roll:

arkoenig
Posts: 267
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:45 pm
Location: New Jersey USA
Contact:

Post by arkoenig » Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:49 pm

I'm confused. Are you saying that Guitar Center could stay in business without customers? How?
The difference between theory and practice is that in theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice, there is.

Machinesworking
Posts: 11077
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Seattle

Post by Machinesworking » Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:57 am

arkoenig wrote:I'm confused. Are you saying that Guitar Center could stay in business without customers? How?
I'm confused, Are you saying that George Bush can stay president even though most people in the United States don't like him? How?

I'm confused? Are you saying you cannot make heads nor tails out of the simple idea that just because a store sells something for cheaper, doesn't make them better?

Seriously man, are you the type of person that assumes that because a person is famous that by de facto they're talented?

What exactly is wrong with the picture here? what are you not getting by me saying GC sucks because they do not know what they are doing, nor do they care, they buy in bulk and undersell, they drive out other businesses by selling at a loss at first, it's an old practice of large chain stores. Yes people buy their fucking product, but some like me do because they drove everybody else out of business, NOT BECAUSE THEY ARE A GOOD STORE/IDEA.
Basically GC is the downside to rampant capitalism, the most bland, cheapest, and dominant concept wins. GC is the McDonalds of the music industry.

Q: Do you work there? if you do STFU and go get me a MIDI cable bitch!

arkoenig
Posts: 267
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:45 pm
Location: New Jersey USA
Contact:

Post by arkoenig » Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:30 pm

Gee, I just asked a simple question. Twice. And twice you haven't answered it.

I haven't expressed any opinion about Guitar Center at all. None. As it happens, I don't think I've even set foot in one of their stores. For that reason, I have no interest at all in trying to dispute your opinion of them--I just don't care.

But I do want an answer to my question. In case you've forgotten, I'll ask it again: If Guitar Center had no customers, how do you think they would stay in business?
The difference between theory and practice is that in theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice, there is.

leisuremuffin
Posts: 4721
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 12:45 am
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Post by leisuremuffin » Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:42 pm

yeah, but they have customers because in most places there isn't another option.


I won't step foot inside one. If I can't get it at a local non-chain joint I order it online. Fuck them.




.lm.
TimeableFloat ???S?e?n?d?I?n?f?o

Machinesworking
Posts: 11077
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Seattle

Post by Machinesworking » Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:50 am

leisuremuffin wrote:yeah, but they have customers because in most places there isn't another option.


I won't step foot inside one. If I can't get it at a local non-chain joint I order it online. Fuck them.




.lm.
Yeah, this is probably the last time. I just wanted to actually play around with the MPK before buying, and it was a fucking annoying experience at best. There's at least a smaller chain in town called American Music, if I need to physically handle hardware I'll buy from them
arkoenig wrote:Gee, I just asked a simple question. Twice. And twice you haven't answered it.
arkoenig, you're intentionally asking a rhetorical question, and getting weird when people don't answer the non-question??? It's very patronizing, and now your acting like an angry parent when I don't "answer" your question... I really don't understand why you're doing this, but please think about it for a second, you stated your answer as a question, what do you expect? I don't agree with your logic, I find your answer/question flawed, and have already given you my opinion.
You're not asking a question, you're stating what you view as a "fact", and trying to get me to agree with your opinion about the subject at hand.
I would be interested in talking to you about it, but I don't particularly think you want that? Rhetorical questions and false accusations of "evasiveness" etc. are not what I consider effective positive communication techniques.

I'm not saying your point isn't valid, but you're framing it as an attack, and not one that asks for my opinion on the matter in the least. Sure, large chain stores survive because people buy from them, but that was never part of the equation, I never said people didn't. What I stated was that they by their sheer size drive smaller, and possibly better in terms of customer service etc. stores out of business by beating them in the price war, and operating at a loss at first, which benefits the chain as a whole in terms of tax breaks.
I could play this game with you and ask why you haven't addressed that? I mean initially you didn't like me stating that corporate tax laws are responsible in part for creating monopolies of a sort, stores like GC become the only game in town, and almost are in my state... and you haven't addressed that once.

So, I've "admitted" that GC would go under if people didn't buy from them, even though it's a moot point if they are in fact the only place you can buy locally say I dunno? a MPK49? but are you going to address my initial point or ignore it in favor of a rhetorical question on your part?

arkoenig
Posts: 267
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:45 pm
Location: New Jersey USA
Contact:

Post by arkoenig » Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:43 pm

arkoenig, you're intentionally asking a rhetorical question, and getting weird when people don't answer the non-question??? It's very patronizing, and now your acting like an angry parent when I don't "answer" your question... I really don't understand why you're doing this, but please think about it for a second, you stated your answer as a question, what do you expect?
Since I was a small child, I have had the (sometimes unfortunate) habit of asking questions, usually innocently, that have made people uncomfortable. The first such question I can recall, asked when I was about six years old, was "If God created everything, then who created God?"

Now, in a sense that question was rhetorical, but it was also legitimate. Because as far as I could tell, it was entirely possible that the question had an answer that I had overlooked, and once I knew the answer, it would certainly change my point of view about the question.

In the case of Guitar Center, my question is also only semi-rhetorical, because where you see good versus evil, I see a situation that is all too familiar: You are in a minority and what you are really railing against is the taste of the majority.

Because companies such as Guitar Center and MacDonald's would not be able to stay in business were it not for two facts: (1) They cater to middle-of-the-road tastes, and (2) Although what they deliver is not particularly good, neither is it too bad. Because if MacDonalds served food that people hated, they'd stop going there. And I say this as someone who has not visited one of their establishments in years.

Now, I sense that part of your anger is that there isn't a local music store with any substantial depth of stock. But if your taste is in a minority, it is pretty much impossible for such places to exist outside large cities, and not even so easy there. The trouble is that in smaller locales, there's just too much overhead in running a small business, especially if people with more mainstream taste won't shop there because of that overhead.

Here's a story about that. Once upon a time, many years ago, I wanted to help my girlfriend (now my wife) pick out a camera. So we went to what looked like a well-stocked local store and asked for advice. We spent probably an hour looking at cameras and found one that did exactly what she wanted. Wanting to be fair to the people who had spent that time with us, we bought it from them.

Later I discovered that we paid nearly twice as much for that camera as it would have cost at B&H Photo. For the price difference, we could have taken a limousine to and from New York and spent the night in a hotel. And if we had gotten to B&H early in the morning, before it fills with people, we could probably have spent more time handling more different cameras and getting better advice than we would have gotten at the local place.

And this is in New Jersey, the state with the most people per square mile of any state in the USA. Because of that population density, it would be possible to maintain a reasonably priced business for serious photographers in New Jersey--if only there were more of them. But there aren't. My tastes are in a minority. And as long as they are, there is no way such a business can be successful in my area. That is not the fault of the large chain stores--it is the "fault" (the quotes are there because I don't think there's any moral content to it) of the fact that my tastes are in the minority.

So yes, I suppose my question is partly rhetorical. The real point of it, though, is not to defend Guitar Center--it's to point out that as long as your tastes are in the minority, you're going to have to look harder for ways to cater to them, and that's not good or evil--it just is.

By the way, if you're thinking of telling me that you don't like the way GC does business, please don't. I know nothing of their business practices, and don't care because I'm not their customer. What I will say, though, is that in the photo world, I am continuously amazed and astonished about what kind of sleazeballs manage to stay in business--something they can do only because somewhere there must be people who are stupid enough to buy from them repeatedly. And I can't think of any word other than stupid to describe such behavior. We are talking here about stores whose *normal* practice is to charge people's credit cards and then not deliver anything. Or to sell used merchandise as new. Or to substitute less expensive products for the ones they're advertising. Or to add hundreds of dollars to the price after the fact. It is inconceivable to me that anyone buys anything from these places and doesn't report them to the state Attorney General's office. But they keep fleecing the flock.

I used to get angry about such things, but all it got me was comments from my girlfriend along the lines of "Why are you so angry? They're not hurting you, and there are so many other things to be angry about that are actually important." That's one of the reasons I married her.
The difference between theory and practice is that in theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice, there is.

leisuremuffin
Posts: 4721
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 12:45 am
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Post by leisuremuffin » Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:46 pm

that's an awfully long post to basically say, "i don't give a fuck."

Nobody gives a fuck if some big corporate company comes along and runs small businesses out of the market with ruthless practices.





but of course nobody gives a fuck. Shit, most people don't care that our government continues to blow our money in a pointless war, continues to erode our freedoms, and is flushing our economy down the shitter while a few elite motherfuckers are laughing all the way to the bank with the war profits.




anyway, have a great weekend!



.lm.
TimeableFloat ???S?e?n?d?I?n?f?o

RawTheory
Posts: 117
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 12:20 am
Location: Oakland CA
Contact:

Post by RawTheory » Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:14 pm

leisuremuffin wrote: but of course nobody gives a fuck. Shit, most people don't care that our government continues to blow our money in a pointless war, continues to erode our freedoms, and is flushing our economy down the shitter while a few elite motherfuckers are laughing all the way to the bank with the war profits.
.lm.


RON PAUL FOR PRESIDENT!!!!!
http://rawtheory.bandcamp.com/
i7 920, 12 gig ram, Live 8, Reaper, Stylus RMX, Omnisphere, Maschine, Trilian

leisuremuffin
Posts: 4721
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 12:45 am
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Post by leisuremuffin » Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:33 pm

anyway, now that i'm done ranting....


I bought a mpk last week, and i like it so far. Haven't really played with note repeat yet, so i haven't got that synced up and running yet and that was the main selling point for me. But i'm really impressed with the build., the thing is sturdy, yo.

one thing that is bs though, the usb cable they include is stupid short. Luckily i have a ton, but if i didn't i'd be pissed.



annnnnd, i don't want to get too deep into it here, but i'm not really a Ron Paul kinda guy.


.lm.
TimeableFloat ???S?e?n?d?I?n?f?o

dave999z
Posts: 489
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 6:16 am
Location: Washington, DC

Post by dave999z » Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:05 pm

Anybody else seen that issue I described in post above where the buttons sort of buzz or rattle if you hit one of the lowest octave of keys kind of hard?

I'm still waiting on my replacement from Guitar Center. I'm wondering if that was just an issue with the unit I had, or if it's true of all of them. (If so, then I won't wait anymore and will just get something else.)

eclipxe
Posts: 69
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:27 am

Post by eclipxe » Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:11 pm

False, it is definitely compatible with Kore (2 at least).

leisuremuffin
Posts: 4721
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 12:45 am
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Post by leisuremuffin » Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:15 pm

dave999z wrote:Anybody else seen that issue I described in post above where the buttons sort of buzz or rattle if you hit one of the lowest octave of keys kind of hard?

I'm still waiting on my replacement from Guitar Center. I'm wondering if that was just an issue with the unit I had, or if it's true of all of them. (If so, then I won't wait anymore and will just get something else.)

no buzz or rattle in mine. solid.



.lm.
TimeableFloat ???S?e?n?d?I?n?f?o

Machinesworking
Posts: 11077
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Seattle

Post by Machinesworking » Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:39 pm

arkoenig wrote:
arkoenig, you're intentionally asking a rhetorical question, and getting weird when people don't answer the non-question??? It's very patronizing, and now your acting like an angry parent when I don't "answer" your question... I really don't understand why you're doing this, but please think about it for a second, you stated your answer as a question, what do you expect?
Since I was a small child, I have had the (sometimes unfortunate) habit of asking questions, usually innocently, that have made people uncomfortable.
OK so after this statement, you once again, do not in the least address the issue I raised, that large corporations are the norm because the US business model favors large businesses over smaller ones. In fact IMO this is the sole reason that you make people "uncomfortable" not because of the "facts" you bring up, but because you are not interested in what other people have to say. You only care to share your conclusion.
To put it succinctly, a large amount of people out there when listening to another person, do not listen to what the other person has to say as much as think about what they will say next. That, again I suspect, is why you are making people "uncomfortable" in conversation.

In conclusion, when someone actively listens, and isn't really expected to share their thoughts on a subject etc. it's generally a parent or therapist, not an internet discussion board on music.
My normal rates are $100 an hour for weekly sessions, if you need daily there is a discount rate. Talk to the front desk to set up your next appointment. :wink:

Mr Man
Posts: 343
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 4:28 pm
Location: Land Of The Brave

Post by Mr Man » Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:57 pm

dave999z wrote:Took it back. Of course it was their last one. So it'll be a few days before another arrives.

It's comical. I must be jinxed or something - every piece of gear I buy has some problem with the first one I take home.

(Or maybe it's that these stores slam the gear around. And when somebody returns something they just sell it to the next guy. This one was brand new though - was even still inside the shipping box.)
your lucky

i got jinxed twice on the mpk... dodgy keys and then a bananna unit - bowed!

Post Reply