OT: bidule vs. max vs Pd vs. Reaktor vs. etc...

chapelier fou · Post by **chapelier fou** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 1:54 pm

it' s actually v. 0.94xx I think. New versions come every two months approximately.
The forum is very, very dynamic and the developpers hyper reactive. When I encounter a bug or a problem, it is corrected in a new version sometimes the day after!
I 've heard it will soon be ready for dual core.
So I am quite sure it will follow hardware improvements.

Lo-Fi Massahkah · Post by **Lo-Fi Massahkah** » Tue May 01, 2007 6:20 am

OK, great!

I went with Max/Msp for now.

-M

Clearscreen · Post by **Clearscreen** » Wed May 02, 2007 7:10 am

I've recently discovered how INSANE maxMSP is as a vst host - being able to just hit a button on your controller to say to your host "load Reaktor5, and when you're done, load this preset on this ensemble." For live work that kind of functionality is just great.

you can do this in bidule pretty easily as well, but i think slightly differently in that you preload it all and mute/unmute processing on the fly.
http://www.mts.net/~mathers/q1_live.html
this example only uses effects, but you can also use this method with synths and groups etc...

aqua_tek · Post by **aqua_tek** » Sun May 06, 2007 11:59 pm

is the learning curve for Max/MSP as steep as it seems at first glance?

I am VERY interested in picking it up but whenever I visit the cycling 74 website to get info, i end up getting intimidated and i just browse away

but I DO want to learn to use it. should i just bite the bullet and jump into it or should i first try sometihng like reaktor to get a taste of the whole modular synth/plugin creation thing?

I am totally illiterate in scripting/programming. Would this make things much more difficult for me?

itook4lefts · Post by **itook4lefts** » Mon May 07, 2007 10:35 am

aqua_tek wrote:but I DO want to learn to use it. should i just bite the bullet and jump into it or should i first try sometihng like reaktor to get a taste of the whole modular synth/plugin creation thing?

i think reaktor is a bad way to learn max/msp, if you get what i mean. i got reaktor last week after using pd for a while. but i'm not finding it any easier to get in to than pd. i think you'll find max/msp easier, because the max/msp tutorials/documentation slaps the reaktor manual. there's so much stuff reaktor can do that NI don7t document at all.

to be honest, i feel a bit let down by reaktor in this respect. i don't regret buying it (how could you at $225 - the library alone is worth more than that), but i'm a bit pissed off that you get stuff in the user library like vectory or whatever, and NI expect you to gape in awe at the programing that went into it, and then they go "but we're not telling you how it's done! mwhahahaha!".

any other reaktor users think the same?

bottom line. i think reaktor deserves a reputation for being hard more that max/msp does. try the max/msp demo.

dmacintyre · Post by **dmacintyre** » Mon May 07, 2007 10:39 am

itook4lefts wrote:
aqua_tek wrote:but I DO want to learn to use it. should i just bite the bullet and jump into it or should i first try sometihng like reaktor to get a taste of the whole modular synth/plugin creation thing?
i think reaktor is a bad way to learn max/msp, if you get what i mean. i got reaktor last week after using pd for a while. but i'm not finding it any easier to get in to than pd. i think you'll find max/msp easier, because the max/msp tutorials/documentation slaps the reaktor manual. there's so much stuff reaktor can do that NI don7t document at all.

to be honest, i feel a bit let down by reaktor in this respect. i don't regret buying it (how could you at $225 - the library alone is worth more than that), but i'm a bit pissed off that you get stuff in the user library like vectory or whatever, and NI expect you to gape in awe at the programing that went into it, and then they go "but we're not telling you how it's done! mwhahahaha!".

any other reaktor users think the same?

bottom line. i think reaktor deserves a reputation for being hard more that max/msp does. try the max/msp demo.

+1. Currently working my way through the MAX/MSP tutorials - they are so comprehensive and perfectly paced for beginners. Reaktor manual is shockingly under-informative for such a powerful app. I'm astonished there isn't a really good third party Reaktor book on the market (there isn't, is there?).

D.

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Mon May 07, 2007 11:28 am

Clearscreen wrote:
I've recently discovered how INSANE maxMSP is as a vst host - being able to just hit a button on your controller to say to your host "load Reaktor5, and when you're done, load this preset on this ensemble." For live work that kind of functionality is just great.
you can do this in bidule pretty easily as well, but i think slightly differently in that you preload it all and mute/unmute processing on the fly.

yeah, that's a totally different thing - "my" method in max lets me build a complete system of my favourite units and then browse through them - very specifically *without* preloading them. If I wanted to preload I could just stick it all inside a rack in Live, couldn't I?

itook4lefts · Post by **itook4lefts** » Mon May 07, 2007 12:49 pm

dmacintyre wrote:I'm astonished there isn't a really good third party Reaktor book on the market (there isn't, is there?).

D.

don't think so. i think i heard there was one for reaktor 3, but it's well outdated now.

aqua_tek · Post by **aqua_tek** » Mon May 07, 2007 5:31 pm

thanks for the info guys. Pretty convincing

I'll be looking into trying max/msp very soon

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Mon May 07, 2007 5:42 pm

aqua_tek wrote:thanks for the info guys. Pretty convincing

I'll be looking into trying max/msp very soon

Nothing to be lost here.
Download the demo. Its fully functional.
The only restriction is the 30 day limit.

In the documentation, you'll find a tutorial for max and for msp. Start with the max tutorials. They are interactive tutorials.
Just like the "help" files in max.
A help file in max is an interactive patch with commentary that you can load up as it where a quick info window.

bigbadotis · Post by **bigbadotis** » Mon May 07, 2007 6:09 pm

pd is cool. free. open source. but an obviously steeper learning curve... I don't know, the more I get into open source the more I wish I had learned pd up front instead of Max and Reaktor.

Although, I will always appreciate Reaktor for the ensemble library, if not necessarily for the construction of new ensembles. The library is -so- good.

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Mon May 07, 2007 7:21 pm

aqua_tek wrote:is the learning curve for Max/MSP as steep as it seems at first glance?

not at all... I had the same feeling when just quickly trying out Max some years ago - I quickly moved on (to Reaktor) thinking that it was going to make things simple for me.

Now, since moving to MaxMSP because Reaktor ultimately didn't do what I want in a sensible manner, I am totally kicking myself over the years lost where I could have gotten all wiz-kid'ey on Max.

Clearscreen · Post by **Clearscreen** » Tue May 08, 2007 12:18 am

Machinate wrote:
Clearscreen wrote:
I've recently discovered how INSANE maxMSP is as a vst host - being able to just hit a button on your controller to say to your host "load Reaktor5, and when you're done, load this preset on this ensemble." For live work that kind of functionality is just great.
you can do this in bidule pretty easily as well, but i think slightly differently in that you preload it all and mute/unmute processing on the fly.
yeah, that's a totally different thing - "my" method in max lets me build a complete system of my favourite units and then browse through them - very specifically *without* preloading them. If I wanted to preload I could just stick it all inside a rack in Live, couldn't I?

good point, but does this work in max using midi program changes? you only mention reaktor and i know that uses program changes, interested to know if it has some way of loading presets in a plugin that ignores program changes.... i'm new to plogue, and from what i've read there is a way of saving and loading presets, i just don't know how to do it yet...

[EDIT] well whatta ya know - (taken from the plogue help...)

Bidule supports creating and modifying presets not only for VSTs (FXB files only), but also for internal bidules and groups. Internal presets can be saved as part of the .bidule in which they were created, as independent .bprs (Bidule PReSet) files, or as a default to be loaded every time the bidule is loaded.

and it works for *any* plugin... COOL!